Just keep in mind that with the recipe you posted you will not be making something that is very similar to Dupont. It will likely be a tasty saison, just not a close match to Dupont.
Why? The yeast?
The grain bill will give you some difference but the yeast will really make it a different beer. The 3711 is an easier yeast to work with but will give a substantially different flavor.
If you’re worried about using the 3724 and having it stall, you can pitch some 3711 to finish the job but still keep the flavor profile.
Maybe I should wait til I have more experience working with yeast to try the recipe. Thanks for the advice .
Please don’t let me dissuade you. I just didn’t want you to think it would taste just like Dupont. Go ahead and make the recipe you posted. It should make a fine saison and you’ll have no worries using 3711 on its own. Even if your mash temp is too high it will still eat right through almost anything.
If you don’t feel comfortable dealing with 3724’s quirks, get a few more batches under your belt, then give a Dupont clone a try.
what better way to learn than by doing it?
That’s true. Here what I did try today. My wife who helps me brew my beer but doesn’t drink alcohol but does drink na beer wants to try what we make. So what I did was after bottling the beer I saved out a gallon. I heated it to 180 for 30 min. Then cooled it. I threw in a 1/2oz of krausen then bottled it. We shall see.
I brew a saison at least once a year, and often twice. I have used WL 550, 530, 565, and 566, WYeast 3724, 3726, 3725, and 3711. I have tasted friends versions with WL 568. You can get close to Saison Dupont with most of these yeasts, but you will probably never nail it down. You can however, make a fantastic saison so you should not give up. Here is my recipe for 5 gallons of finished beer:
–5Lbs German/Belgian pils malt, 5Lbs Maris Otter, (I do this to get a slightly orange color suggested by the BJCP guidelines. Use 8 Lbs pils and 2 Lbs MO if you want a lighter Dupont color.)
–Bitter to 30 IBU with East Kent Goldings. 1 Oz. Styrian Goldings for 10 min. 1 Oz. Styrian G at flame out. Chill the beer to 65-68 degrees. O.G. 1.052, T.G. is from 1.001-006.
–WL 565 Make a starter and pitch. Let the beer rise to 70 over the next couple of days. Let the beer rise to 90 if you can get it that hot. Don’t mess with it for 4 weeks after initial fermentation, and I usually let mine sit for 5 weeks in a hot south Texas garage. I usually bottle mine with a neutral yeast like Wyeast 1968 because I usually have a fresh sample of that around. Let your carboy cool down to AC room temp before you bottle or keg. I have had this yeast crap out on me a couple of times in 10 years of brewing saisons which means I got an infected, phenolic soup, but the other times it has been great. My first attempts were fermented in the 60s and they rarely finished below 1.020 which tasted terribly sweet and caused bottle bombs. If you can’t ferment in the 90s this time of year, WL 530 and Wyeast 3711 make a great blond ale that borders on Saison. I ferment them the same way, but only let them rise to 78 for a couple of weeks. I make 10 gallon batches which is why I have had the opportunity to experiment with the different yeasts. Styrian Goldings give a great citrus character so you don’t need spices. It is different from American C hops though. You also don’t need sugar to dry the beer out. All of these yeasts will take the beer below 1.010 and usually 1.006. I even had a 1.070 all Maris Otter Christmas Saison that finished at 1.006 with no hot alcohol or solvent notes using WL 565.
Not to brag, just to give some credibility, I got second place, category 16, in a big Texas competition with my saison. I entered the version with WL 530 because it is a bit less funky and I find cleaner beers do better in this competition. It still has plenty of complexity though.
SA, just to confirm, pitch at around 68-70, then let rise/raise to 90* and keep it there for a month?
Also, have you experimented with Saaz, American, or Pac Rim/AUS hops such as Galaxy? I’ve used Galaxy in a few saisons I’ve made, and have generally enjoyed them, but they’ve all been with 3711 or Belle Saison (Danstar). I love the simple grain bill. (Hopefully) time to start thinking about brewing these!
Has anyone brewed the Dupont clone recipe from candisyrup.com?
http://www.candisyrup.com/uploads/6/0/3 ... _-_040.pdfI’d be nervous about following their suggested fermentation schedule, though it seems to have worked well for them, and they are brewing relatively homebrew sized batches.
I’m about to give 3724 another shot. I haven’t used it since the 3711 was released.
seems like a weird ferment schedule. I’ve never heard of pitching warm without doing a diacetyl rest/corresponding increase at the end of fermentation. I suppose stranger things have worked in brewing though!
I repeatedly hear that pitching warm causes diacetyl, but I’ve never heard an explanation why. I would think it would be just the opposite. Can you fill me in?
I prefer to do the exact opposite with my Saisons and some Belgian Ales. I start around 68-70F, hold for 24-48hrs, the raise it up into the upper 70’s or even low 80’s.
And like Denny said, I thought Diacetyl was a problem when fermented cold and NOT warmed up. I thought warming the yeast up would help reduce it and assume pitching warm would have the same effect. I’m confused?
My (very elementary) understanding is that diacetyl is formed in the early (growth) stage of fermentation as an intermediate compound, then later reabsorbed (like acetaldehyde). . If that phase occurs at a higher temperature prior to the yeast reabsorbing the diacetyl, then the temp is dropped, the yeast only stays active enough to consume the sugars, but can leave diacetyl in the beer, in excess of perceivable thresholds.
I know I heard this in one of Jamil’s podcasts, where he says that pitching warm is ok, but you have to warm it back up at the end of fermentation, which can require some careful timing. As a result, the Narziss fermentation, where the temp starts low and slowly increases, is a little easier to manage, and results in lower overall byproducts and increased absorption of them, including diacetyl.
So basically, I have nothing other than the word/opinion of a few good brewers to base this on :cheers:
I woudl skip the warm ferment, I have made plenty of Saions where I ferment just like I do ales 60-68 and have tons of the saison character…never understood the oh no you have to ferment at 80-90, no need to go that high and waste resources getting it that high and keeping it that high
This has typically been my belief and practice, but I’ve only used 565/Dupont once, and was pretty unsuccessful. Not sure if high temps and/or yeast blending are necessary for that particular yeast.
Well thanks for all the input. Just put in an IPA my second all grain and got 85% conversion from my mash I’m happy about that. I used my new kettle which boiled off a 1/2 gal more than expected. But the next up will be this saison with WY3724. I have an old fridge with a light bulb that I keep my fermenter in,stays around 70deg. So ill start there and maybe put a bigger bulb in after a week to get it up a little higher.
I have used Saaz in a blond ale if I am trying to build up some yeast for a tripel. It should also work well with this style. I really like the earthy, peppery character of East Kent Goldings and the sweet, citrus character of Styrian Goldings. Most of my experimentation has been with the malt bill and yeast. I would skip the sugar additions in the candisyrup recipe. You don’t need it. These yeasts are strong fermenters. That also sounds like an odd fermentation schedule to me.
I did order some Saison Dupont and Moinette from Belgium last year, and they both had a lot of diacetyl. I still have most of it because I was waiting for the diacetyl to clean up. I keep meaning to set it out of the fridge, but I keep forgetting until I want to drink one. This may be one of the beers that ages better by traveling to the U.S. I also had a dry hopped version that was in a brown bottle so I hope they will start putting all of their beers in brown bottles.
I was scared to ferment warm for my first 3 or 4 batches. The beers had plenty of saison character, but they finished waaaaay too sweet and I had bottle bombs and super high carbonation. You don’t need to spend a lot of money on heating the ferment. Just find a warm place next to a heater vent or fire place. Keep an old shirt on it or something to keep it out of the light. Unfortunately, my garage is already warm, and I need to keep it cool for all the beers I have brewed that do not fit in my beer fridge. I will probably not brew a saison for another month or so.
