Had a taste of a saison DuPont clone the other day, anyone have a recipe
Saison DuPont is a great beer. Here is the recipe I used. I wouldn’t call it a clone but I didn’t have the guts to start with a fermentation temp. as high as I should have.
12.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 96.00 %
2.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 29.0 IBU
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] (0 min) Hops -
0.50 lb Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 4.00 %
1 Pkgs Belgian Saison (Wyeast Labs #3724) [Starter 130 ml] Yeast-Ale
That is for 6 gallons @ %78 efficiency. You’re shooting for an OG around 1.062.
Candisyrup.com has a very similar recipe here:
http://www.candisyrup.com/uploads/6/0/3/5/6035776/saison_dupont_-_variation_002x.pdf
Looks good. I have found a few recipes and grains are all similar but the hop bill varies from 3oz no orange peel to 1.5oz with orange peel. Most recipes use WY 3711 or WY 3724. Everyone is shy on WL565, I am to.
Love me some WY3711. I’ve also used Danstar belle saison yeast with good results. Personally, if given the choice I’d use 3711. It’s a monster. It will chew and chew and chew until almost all sugars are gone. I like my Saisons super dry which 3711 will do.
And don’t be afraid to ferment warm. I’ve tried different temps and higher is better, IMO. I generally start around 70F and after a day or two let it climb up into the upper 70’s and even low 80’s. The guy who runs my LHBS made a Saison fermented in the 90’s and it was really fantastic. It’s the one style I prefer to let the temps run wild. The yeast will produce great flavors with elevated temps.
[quote=“dobe12”]Love me some WY3711. I’ve also used Danstar belle saison yeast with good results. Personally, if given the choice I’d use 3711. It’s a monster. It will chew and chew and chew until almost all sugars are gone. I like my Saisons super dry which 3711 will do.
And don’t be afraid to ferment warm. I’ve tried different temps and higher is better, IMO. I generally start around 70F and after a day or two let it climb up into the upper 70’s and even low 80’s. The guy who runs my LHBS made a Saison fermented in the 90’s and it was really fantastic. It’s the one style I prefer to let the temps run wild. The yeast will produce great flavors with elevated temps.[/quote]
This time of year I’m thinking WY3711. This is a recipe I will experiment with one of the warmer yeasts in the summer. Anyone have an opinion of the hop/orange part of the recipe
3726 is a killer strain if you can find it too and is not high maintenance. AFAIK, no spices in DuPont, the fruit comes from the magical yeast esters and finishing hop Styrian Goldings.
No spices in DuPont. If you want to clone it you need to use 3724 or 565, they are the DuPont yeast. I’ve used the 3724 a few times and never had any problems. You just need to give it heat and time. 3711 is a monster but will not give the same flavor.
That’s what I was wondering since a lot o recipes don’t call for orange
Here is what I’m going to try modified fom a couple of recipes.
5lb Belgian pilsner
4lb Belgian Vienna
1lb wheat
1lb candi sugar
1oz EKG@60
.5oz EKG and .5oz SG @15
WY3711
.25oz EKG and .25oz SG dry hop 5days
one recipe call 90min mash why?
This is my second all grain my first wasn’t a complete success thus all the questions.
this*. Since saisons got popular a few years ago, the major yeast labs started putting out products (such as 3711 FRENCH saison, WLP 566, and Danstar Belle Saison) that are, to my understanding blends of neutral ale yeasts and traditional saison yeasts. They did this since there were so many problems and complaints from brewers (home and commercial) that the yeast did not dry the beers out enough.
For the record, I also vehemently disagree with the popular belief that saisons need to be ‘fermented hot’. I start them in the mid 60’s, ramp up to 75-78, and they attenuate down to nothing…Nothing but subtle fruity/spice phenolics and dry dreamy beer that is.
Do not put any spices in a saison. The flavors are from the yeast. Also, 90 minute mash is likely to ensure you have an extremely fermentable wort.
*I have had nothing but problems trying to work with 565 on its own. It stalls out around 1.020. Chris White was on The Jamil Show and basically said that 565 is meant to be used IN CONJUNCTION with a brewer’s house yeast. I have never used 3724 which is the Wyeast ‘equivalent’. WLP 566 “Saison II”, however, is a rampaging beast. But it will not give you the same subtle flavors that 565 will. It makes a killer saison, just not the same beer as SD.
Petro, I agree and my process is similar. When do you crank the heat? I usually heat when krausen begins to fall.
90min mash to really dry the beer out. I think an hour is plenty (only do 30min for ales)
What were the issues with last brew?
[quote=“zwiller”]Petro, I agree and my process is similar. When do you crank the heat? I usually heat when krausen begins to fall.
90min mash to really dry the beer out. I think an hour is plenty (only do 30min for ales)
What were the issues with last brew?[/quote]
Mashed and sparged to cold. To much water. Made all the mistakes at once. Live and learn. Added som DME , not enough ABV for an IPA so going to call it areal hoppy pale ale.
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Denny I see you agree with Pietro. What yeast do you recommend ?
[quote=“Brew Cat”][quote=“zwiller”]Petro, I agree and my process is similar. When do you crank the heat? I usually heat when krausen begins to fall.
90min mash to really dry the beer out. I think an hour is plenty (only do 30min for ales)
What were the issues with last brew?[/quote]
Mashed and sparged to cold. To much water. Made all the mistakes at once. Live and learn. Added som DME , not enough ABV for an IPA so going to call it areal hoppy pale ale.[/quote]
Not the end of the world. It does take time to dial your system in.
[/quote]
Denny I see you agree with Pietro. What yeast do you recommend ?[/quote]
For Dupont, 3724. Although personally I prefer 3711 for a “general” saison. I start each of them in the mid 60s for a few days before letting them rise on their own.
I’ll agree that Saisons don’t “need” to be fermented hot, but they can be. You will get a wide range of flavors depending on your fermentation. If possible, I’d recommend experimenting with different temps. I’ve found I like to start around 68-70F, but hold for only a day or two then let the temp fly.
Again, it’s not necessary, but an option. I would never ferment any other yeast (except the occasional Belgian) that warm, but Saison yeast can do some amazing things at elevated temps.
[quote=“dobe12”]I’ll agree that Saisons don’t “need” to be fermented hot, but they can be. You will get a wide range of flavors depending on your fermentation. If possible, I’d recommend experimenting with different temps. I’ve found I like to start around 68-70F, but hold for only a day or two then let the temp fly.
Again, it’s not necessary, but an option. I would never ferment any other yeast (except the occasional Belgian) that warm, but Saison yeast can do some amazing things at elevated temps.[/quote]
@ zwill, I will typically start raising it by a few degrees a day on the 2nd/3rd day, usually when I start to see airlock activity decrease. Not exactly specific science, but it keeps the yeast active. I honestly do this on most of my ales, as most of the phenols and esters are produced (or not produced) in the active phase of fermentation, usually from 5-48 hours after pitching.
@ dobe do you ever get fusels from fermenting warm? I suppose I am just pretty gun shy after my first saison (which was actually my 5th brew ever!) that was a bit of a disaster (fermented with 565/dupont). I’ve found that fusel alcohols in saisons often come off as a pithy, bitter, somewhat solventy character. Something I would definitely try. I also notice that Denny uses the Wyeast version of the Dupont yeast. Again, never used that, so maybe I will try fermenting it side by side, holding @ 65 in one, and 68 in the other. I tend to prefer real subtle phenols/esters, not a big citrus bomb.
Just came from the corner tavern in Naugatuck CT. Saison DuPont on tap. I had a couple just to enforce the reason why I want to brew it.
I’m in the ferment em hot camp. I’ve always done them this way, but after some experienced brewers on here were really adament about fermenting at regular ale temps and then rising after a few days I experimented for myself. I do 10 gallon batches, so I pitched and fermented one at 78* like I normally do, and then pitched and fermented one at 65* and then at 70* after a few days(3711). I still preferred the “hot” one, the cooler one definitely wasnt bad, but way more subdued. FWIW, I have fermented an ale too hot and know what fusels taste like, I didn’t get that from the Saison
Classic Connecticut bar. Not too many of those left.
