What off flavors do tannins leaching from grains during the mash give the finished beer? What do they tase like?
It is not a flavor but rather a feeling of dryness in your mouth. As if you filled your mouth with saltine crackers. Sort of like a puckering feeling but without being sour.
Thanks Dave. It’s a long story, but I have this citrus-bitter flavor in all my beers. Almost like grapefruit. I just started to look into water chemistry and read about tannins leaching while mashing. I thought that may be what I am tasting. I’m not home or I would list the alkaline for you from the report Ward sent me.
Brad
Thanks Dave. It’s a long story, but I have this citrus-bitter flavor in all my beers. Almost like grapefruit. I just started to look into water chemistry and read about tannins leaching while mashing. I thought that may be what I am tasting. I’m not home or I would list the alkaline for you from the report Ward sent me.
Brad[/quote]
Might very well be the effect of your bicarbonate level.
Thanks Dave. It’s a long story, but I have this citrus-bitter flavor in all my beers. Almost like grapefruit. I just started to look into water chemistry and read about tannins leaching while mashing. I thought that may be what I am tasting. I’m not home or I would list the alkaline for you from the report Ward sent me.
Brad[/quote]
Might very well be the effect of your bicarbonate level.[/quote]
Denny,
Bicarbonate level is 28. Total alkalinity, 23. Sent from wards lab. What ya think?
[quote=“Bier brauer”]Denny,
Bicarbonate level is 28. Total alkalinity, 23. Sent from wards lab. What ya think?[/quote]
Inconsequential…hey it was a guess!
This grapefruit tartness is driving me crazy. I have it in all my beers.I never adjusted water before. Now that I have my report from Ward Lab I been reading about water chemistry. I can’t nail it down. I’m no chemist, never had it in school either.
Anyway, I have used store bought spring water from two sources plus my carbon filtered house water. The off flavor is there even when using different water. It is not bad. It would be wonderful IF it was supposed to be there. Even my Oktoberfest lager has it. I have a porter fermenting now. I went on beerSmith and scaled back the amount of hops until it came into range. I believe it is at 23 IBU’s. It was @ 37 before I scaled it back. I’ll see if that helps.
Brad
I never adjusted water chemistry when doing extract brews. I was steeping grains and all my beers had a similar flavor added that didn’t belong. Then I started all grain and didn’t bother with water chemistry when I made my first stout with spring water. It was undrinkable. My next beer was an APA, also spring water, where I used brewing salts and pH strips during mash to bring it closer in line. It was drinkable, but not great. Sent my house water off to Ward and bought a carbon filter for one sink. My next brew will have water already dialed in with lactic acid and salts using Bru’n Water software (free). I recommend downloading it and BeerSmith 2. I’m learning a bunch from both.
I’m wondering if your PH is to low. I noticed that most of your beers are probably 12srm and darker. If your finished beer PH gets below 4.3 it can start to get slightly tart. Your water is probably best suited for beers 3 - 8srm. For instance my bicarbonate level is 266 which is great for browns, stouts, and porters. Good Luck :cheers:
Since I started to adjust my sparge water to around 5.8ph with phosphoric acid and stop sparging under 1.010 sg it has helped to stop my tannin problem.
My ward lab reports my Ph is 7.8. I do use a carbon filter when filling the mash and sparge kettles. The sample I sent to ward Lab went thru the filter. Since I did not have a water report until just a few days ago, I bought 5.2 stabilizer and was adding it to both mash and sparge water. I hear that it doesn’t work, I don’t know. I had that grapefruit taste in beer I brewed without the 5.2 added. I down loaded BeerSmith 2 BUT I’m having a little trouble navigating around in it. It is not the program, it is me. I am not good with computers and it takes me a long time to figure things out. I have been messing around with the water end of BeerSmith, I just need to figure a few more things out. I am really anxious to get a handle on this water chemistry stuff. I have found EZ water and Brewers Friend and have been playing with those also.
Thanks everyone for all your help!
Brad
Last piece of advice…throw the 5.2 in the trash!
Wanna trade some 5.2 for some CaCl ? :D
Wanna trade some 5.2 for some CaCl ? :D [/quote]
I’ve already got a tub of 5.2 that was used twice before I decided I never wanted that stuff in my beer again!
why? what’s up with 5.2?
Just curious, I’m not a user…
With regard to the 5.2 stabilizer:
- It doesn’t work, and
- Denny thinks it tastes funny.
I’ve used it many times and haven’t really noticed any strange flavors. On the other hand, I have never tasted it by itself (yet) so I don’t know if it’s contributed to any slight off-flavors.
However I have indeed noticed that it doesn’t work. And if it doesn’t work, well then, why use it.
[quote=“dmtaylo2”]With regard to the 5.2 stabilizer:
- It doesn’t work, and
- Denny thinks it tastes funny.
I’ve used it many times and haven’t really noticed any strange flavors. On the other hand, I have never tasted it by itself (yet) so I don’t know if it’s contributed to any slight off-flavors.
However I have indeed noticed that it doesn’t work. And if it doesn’t work, well then, why use it.[/quote]
Dave, if I was the only one who thought it gave the beer a weird flavor, I might not mention it. But I see it mentioned by many people, over and over.
AND, it doesn’t work!
5.2 gives the beer a strange salty taste. I won’t touch the stuff now.
Bier brauer - what about the malt you’re using? Are you using the same base malt for these beers? Or common ingredients of any kind? I doubt it’d be infection since it’s not sour or plastic or metallic and just citrusy. I could be wrong there, though. I think a house character is pretty common and it’s a combination of things that causes that - water and ingredients being the big factors, I’d say. But as homebrewers, we have the option to use different water and ingredients if we so choose.
I have just used it for about 10 batches of beer. My beer has a weird grapefruit tartness that I have been trying to nail down. I thought maybe mash Ph was the culprit. So I bought the 5.2 as a counter measure. Honestly, I see no difference in my beer. I read that one brewer seemed to get off flavors from using it. My home water is 7.8 Ph, maybe a water source that has different mineral and Ph numbers than I have may see a difference.
I have never brewed the same kit twice so I have had different grain bills. I have brewed kits from a few different suppliers. Even used different bottled spring water. There has to be a common denominator that is giving me grief. Tomorrow I am going order plastic fermenting buckets for catching my sparge runnings.(don’t have a third kettle yet). Idon’t know if it is from the plastic buckets I am using now, although it is not a plastic taste. Not sure if they are food grade.
[quote=“Bier brauer”]I have just used it for about 10 batches of beer. My beer has a weird grapefruit tartness that I have been trying to nail down. I thought maybe mash Ph was the culprit. So I bought the 5.2 as a counter measure. Honestly, I see no difference in my beer. I read that one brewer seemed to get off flavors from using it. My home water is 7.8 Ph, maybe a water source that has different mineral and Ph numbers than I have may see a difference.
I have never brewed the same kit twice so I have had different grain bills. I have brewed kits from a few different suppliers. Even used different bottled spring water. There has to be a common denominator that is giving me grief.[/quote]
From what I understand, the pH of your water doesn’t matter so much as the bicarbonate and alkalinity levels. The pH of my tap water is 9.1 but the alkalinity is something like 34, so I can brew pretty light beers with no issues. I just use a little phosphoric for my sparge water and a little acid malt in the mash for light beers.
You’re getting this flavor in all beers no matter what color or style? Hard to believe it would show up in a stout or porter.
Beers are bottle conditioned or kegged?
