[quote=“Beersk”][quote=“Bier brauer”]I have just used it for about 10 batches of beer. My beer has a weird grapefruit tartness that I have been trying to nail down. I thought maybe mash Ph was the culprit. So I bought the 5.2 as a counter measure. Honestly, I see no difference in my beer. I read that one brewer seemed to get off flavors from using it. My home water is 7.8 Ph, maybe a water source that has different mineral and Ph numbers than I have may see a difference.
I have never brewed the same kit twice so I have had different grain bills. I have brewed kits from a few different suppliers. Even used different bottled spring water. There has to be a common denominator that is giving me grief.[/quote]
From what I understand, the pH of your water doesn’t matter so much as the bicarbonate and alkalinity levels. The pH of my tap water is 9.1 but the alkalinity is something like 34, so I can brew pretty light beers with no issues. I just use a little phosphoric for my sparge water and a little acid malt in the mash for light beers.
You’re getting this flavor in all beers no matter what color or style? Hard to believe it would show up in a stout or porter.
Beers are bottle conditioned or kegged?[/quote]
I have my very first porter fermenting now. Another 3-4 weeks to go before I can try it. But yes I made wheat ales,amber ales, light ales, and one lager, an Oktoberfest. All beer has this tartness. Although I been brewing for two years this January, I only made about 13 batches. The first three were extract. Off the top of my head, I think my alkalinity is 23. Later I will look at the report an adit this post. yes total alkanlinity is 23
Okay, how about your fermenters, what are you using? Glass carboy? Plastic carboy or bucket? Have you changed out anything plastic like siphon hoses and whatnot?
Is this something that is there from the first sample you take during gravity readings or does it develop and get worse with time?
I ferment with glass carboys. I have an auto siphon, no I never changed the tube, but I clean it with PBW, then sanitize with Starsan. When I take gravity readings I use a cut off wine thief which is sanitized before use and please the drops on a refractometer. No, this taste does not get worse as the beer ages. I haven’t sampled any brews until they are in the keg and carbed.
There are no home brewers around who can sample my beer to tell me what they think. Do you think leaf hops instead of pellets would change anything?
[quote=“Bier brauer”]I ferment with glass carboys. I have an auto siphon, no I never changed the tube, but I clean it with PBW, then sanitize with Starsan. When I take gravity readings I use a cut off wine thief which is sanitized before use and please the drops on a refractometer.
There are no home brewers around who can sample my beer to tell me what they think. Do you think leaf hops instead of pellets would change anything?
Brad[/quote]
Cut off, how? Are you using the cut off part to take the sample? So are you saying that this flavor is there from the beginning or does it show up later and get worse?
Have you tried using pellets? I doubt it would be leaf hops as many others use them without issue. Take note to see if this flavor is there before you bottle to see if it doesn’t develop later.
Now that I think of it I bet I use a cut off bottle filler. What it amounts to is a straight plastic tube with a 1/4 inch I.D. I lower it into the wort, then place my thumb over the end of the tube on top then draw out the tube. There is enough wort in the tube for the refractometer sample.
This taste is there from the beginning, but does not get worse. As luck would have it, I had a fire going tonight and a neighbor came over. I gave him two home brews to try. One is the Oktoberfest,the other is an Alaskan Amber ale clone. I asked him if he detected this bitter/tart flavor. It is in the finish. He said he could but thought the beer tasted ok.
My beer is kegged, and the lines and faucets are kept clean. We will nail this down sooner or later.
My best guess is that this is in your water and not an infection since you are tasting it in all your beers. Changing hoses is a cheap insurance policy though. I’m not familiar with the water software you are using, I recently downloaded Bru’n Water and find it straightforward and well explained. I do use BeerSmith 2 for everything but water adjustment.
[quote=“Bier brauer”]Now that I think of it I bet I use a cut off bottle filler. What it amounts to is a straight plastic tube with a 1/4 inch I.D. I lower it into the wort, then place my thumb over the end of the tube on top then draw out the tube. There is enough wort in the tube for the refractometer sample.
This taste is there from the beginning, but does not get worse. As luck would have it, I had a fire going tonight and a neighbor came over. I gave him two home brews to try. One is the Oktoberfest,the other is an Alaskan Amber ale clone. I asked him if he detected this bitter/tart flavor. It is in the finish. He said he could but thought the beer tasted ok.
My beer is kegged, and the lines and faucets are kept clean. We will nail this down sooner or later.
Brad[/quote]
So it’s a bitter after taste, huh? Sounds like it could be tannins. Is it reminiscent of drinking tea or dry wine? It doesn’t necessarily have to be a super astringent or puckering sensation, it can be subtle. Good that he thought the beer tasted fine. I second guess my beer all the time, I hate it. I wish I could just drink it and enjoy it because I made it. But I’m on this quest to brew the best beer possible, so I’m my own worst critic, which can get depressing if I let it get to me.
Sounds like it’s a water issue and it’s especially a good thing that it doesn’t get worse. If you don’t already, get Bru’n water and start adjusting your water.
[quote=“Beersk”]
So it’s a bitter after taste, huh? Sounds like it could be tannins. Is it reminiscent of drinking tea or dry wine? It doesn’t necessarily have to be a super astringent or puckering sensation, it can be subtle. Good that he thought the beer tasted fine. I second guess my beer all the time, I hate it. I wish I could just drink it and enjoy it because I made it. But I’m on this quest to brew the best beer possible, so I’m my own worst critic, which can get depressing if I let it get to me.
Sounds like it’s a water issue and it’s especially a good thing that it doesn’t get worse. If you don’t already, get Bru’n water and start adjusting your water.[/quote]
I didn’t read back through the whole thread, but that bitter after taste can also be used to describe chlorophenols.
[quote=“Denny”][quote=“Beersk”]
So it’s a bitter after taste, huh? Sounds like it could be tannins. Is it reminiscent of drinking tea or dry wine? It doesn’t necessarily have to be a super astringent or puckering sensation, it can be subtle. Good that he thought the beer tasted fine. I second guess my beer all the time, I hate it. I wish I could just drink it and enjoy it because I made it. But I’m on this quest to brew the best beer possible, so I’m my own worst critic, which can get depressing if I let it get to me.
Sounds like it’s a water issue and it’s especially a good thing that it doesn’t get worse. If you don’t already, get Bru’n water and start adjusting your water.[/quote]
I didn’t read back through the whole thread, but that bitter after taste can also be used to describe chlorophenols.[/quote]
I think the thing that leads us away from that is that he gets the flavor when using store bought or filtered tap water.
[quote=“Beersk”]
I think the thing that leads us away from that is that he gets the flavor when using store bought or filtered tap water.[/quote]
Could be still occurring if bleach is used as part of his cleaning process… It’s an interesting puzzle.
Bierbrauer, how are your fermentation temperatures? Are they potentially too high, resulting in cidery flavors? Could you be mistaking citrus for “green apple” aka acetaldehyde? How long do you wait from grain to glass?
I ferment my ales in the low 60’s. I have a quart of water in the freezer, I wrap the temperature probe from the Johnson controller in a plastic bag and place it in the water. I do this because I feel the water is close to beer temperature. The lager I brewed I fermented 48-50 degrees. I quit with the secondary’s and ferment for three weeks. After three weeks I start to check gravity levels, if they are steady I keg it. Give it 35-40 pounds of Co2 to seal the lid, dump it off to expel O2, then do that process 4 more times. Once I feel or hope I purged out the O2, I’ll recharge with 25 pounds of Co2 and shake it around for a while,adding Co2 as needed. The corney then gets placed in the kegerator for a day or two, taken back out, pressure dumped off then recharged to service pressure @ 10-12 pounds. I usually start drinking the beer at that time.
Denny mentioned chlorophenols. That one I have to look up.
I sanitize with only Starsan. I only use bleach if I purchase a new carboy because I totally fill it up and let it sit for a day then discard the bleach water then rinse the heck out of it. Before use, it will get sanitized with Starsan.
I have to say I a totally overwhelmed with all the help from the brewing community on this topic. I never expected such a large response. Thank you to each of you, I really appreciate your help.
It’s really hard to say without tasting it. Would you be willing to ship a few of us a sample to taste to be sure? I know that’s a stretch, but I thought I’d ask…
Thanks guys,I’ll go to the 6pack shop and find a brand that does not have a twist off cap. I will have to fill from a tap system. They may be flat when you receive them. I’ll do the best I can.
