I was wondering how can I tell when my beer is ready to move to the secondary fermenter?
Primary started within about an hour or two of pitching. I used a blow off tube from my 6.5 NB bucket. The first 48 hrs were pretty vigious with the rate of bubbles coming out of the blow off. I used a saison yeast and pitched dry. The tape thermometer on the bucket raised slowly to 76-78 and held steady ever since. I switched to a three piece air lock yesterday. This afternoon I’m seeing bubbles only about once a minute. It has been about 90 hours in the primary.
Should I give it a full week and then transfer for an additional week in secondary? Or maybe two week in secondary?
BTW, my secondery is a clear 5 gal carboy. :cheers:
Do not transfer to secondary at all. Your saison (with the Belle Saison yeast, correct?) will turn out best if left alone in primary tor about 3.5 weeks. I have shared this experience with many others who agreed and had the same experience. This yeast is wonderful and starts out fast but needs a long time in primary to finish the job, which will get the beer all the way down to about 1.002.
So, you say no secondary? I’m definitely not questioning your knowledge or experience but I’m a bit confused as when to use or not use a secdonary.
I’m sorry about the questions but I’m brand new to this and I am a bit confused by all the info out on the web.
Will it ruin the beer by going to a secondary? Should I have just used my 5 gal carboy so I could see the fermentation process?
In general, it is almost never necessary to use a secondary unless you add more fermentables. Here’s an article from the AHA forum by John Palmer, author of How to Brew…
When and why would you need to use a secondary fermenter? First some background – I used to recommend racking a beer to a secondary fermenter. My recommendation was based on the premise that (20 years ago) larger (higher gravity) beers took longer to ferment completely, and that getting the beer off the yeast reduced the risk of yeast autolysis (ie., meaty or rubbery off-flavors) and it allowed more time for flocculation and clarification, reducing the amount of yeast and trub carryover to the bottle. Twenty years ago, a homebrewed beer typically had better flavor, or perhaps less risk of off-flavors, if it was racked off the trub and clarified before bottling. Today that is not the case.
The risk inherent to any beer transfer, whether it is fermenter-to-fermenter or fermenter-to-bottles, is oxidation and staling. Any oxygen exposure after fermentation will lead to staling, and the more exposure, and the warmer the storage temperature, the faster the beer will go stale.
Racking to a secondary fermenter used to be recommended because staling was simply a fact of life – like death and taxes. But the risk of autolysis was real and worth avoiding – like cholera. In other words, you know you are going to die eventually, but death by cholera is worth avoiding.
But then modern medicine appeared, or in our case, better yeast and better yeast-handling information. Suddenly, death by autolysis is rare for a beer because of two factors: the freshness and health of the yeast being pitched has drastically improved, and proper pitching rates are better understood. The yeast no longer drop dead and burst like Mr. Creosote from Monty Python’s The Meaning of Life when fermentation is complete – they are able to hibernate and wait for the next fermentation to come around. The beer has time to clarify in the primary fermenter without generating off-flavors. With autolysis no longer a concern, staling becomes the main problem. The shelf life of a beer can be greatly enhanced by avoiding oxygen exposure and storing the beer cold (after it has had time to carbonate).
Therefore I, and Jamil and White Labs and Wyeast Labs, do not recommend racking to a secondary fermenter for ANY ale, except when conducting an actual second fermentation, such as adding fruit or souring. Racking to prevent autolysis is not necessary, and therefore the risk of oxidation is completely avoidable. Even lagers do not require racking to a second fermenter before lagering. With the right pitching rate, using fresh healthy yeast, and proper aeration of the wort prior to pitching, the fermentation of the beer will be complete within 3-8 days (bigger = longer). This time period includes the secondary or conditioning phase of fermentation when the yeast clean up acetaldehyde and diacetyl. The real purpose of lagering a beer is to use the colder temperatures to encourage the yeast to flocculate and promote the precipitation and sedimentation of microparticles and haze.
So, the new rule of thumb: don’t rack a beer to a secondary, ever, unless you are going to conduct a secondary fermentation.
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/ ... #msg191642A secondary vessel, it is not a secondary fermentor, is almost never needed unless you have additions such as oak cubes or fruit. A secondary vessel may be used if you are planning to bulk age a beer over one and a half months.
Let your beer ferment out completely in the primary. When the beer has completed fermentation the CO2 produced will off gas allowing suspended yeast and hop particles to settle out. In about three weeks, with most ales, you will have a clear beer to rack to the bottling bucket.
edit: Denny can type faster than me.
Thanks guys! I really appreciate all the great advice on this site. I hope to someday repay the favor. :cheers:
One other reason to secondary has nothing to do with the process. That is to free up your primary fermeter. If you are not ready to bottle or keg this will buy some time.
I too when first brewing transferred everything to secondary but no longer. Your beer will turn out fine and it is one less step. Back in those dark ages some of the dry yeast came taped onto the lid of a can of LME and may have been as old as dirt. Yeast today is high tech and much more reliable.
[quote=“HD4Mark”]One other reason to secondary has nothing to do with the process. That is to free up your primary fermeter. If you are not ready to bottle or keg this will buy some time.
I too when first brewing transferred everything to secondary but no longer. Your beer will turn out fine and it is one less step. Back in those dark ages some of the dry yeast came taped onto the lid of a can of LME and may have been as old as dirt. Yeast today is high tech and much more reliable.[/quote]
Did this today with a tripel…just needed a spare 6.5 gallon carboy.
[quote=“UncDeo”][quote=“HD4Mark”]One other reason to secondary has nothing to do with the process. That is to free up your primary fermeter. If you are not ready to bottle or keg this will buy some time.
I too when first brewing transferred everything to secondary but no longer. Your beer will turn out fine and it is one less step. Back in those dark ages some of the dry yeast came taped onto the lid of a can of LME and may have been as old as dirt. Yeast today is high tech and much more reliable.[/quote]
Did this today with a tripel…just needed a spare 6.5 gallon carbon.[/quote]
Put in a birthday request to nephews and nieces. No ties or socks, only large carboys, one could be stainless steel.
Taking much of the advice given on these boards by these fine brewers…I have never used a secondary.
I “almost” decided to secondary a kolsch as I wanted it just a bit cleaner, but taking it down to 48-53 degrees the last two weeks of the ferment (4 week total) cleaned it up really well and I am again certain that a secondary will not add any noticeable difference to the beers I brew.
Would this also include dry hopping? I need to do this to a Chinook Ale in about a week. Can I do so in the primary?
I dry hop in the primary. Works great. I wait until almost all of the CO2 has off gassed to prevent the escaping CO2 from scrubbing the hop aroma.
I often transfer to a second container after fermentation is complete, but it isn’t what I would consider a “secondary fermenter” by any means. I transfer from my 6 and 6 1/2 gallon fermenters to a five gallon carboy because it fits my freezer better with all the other kegs and stuff I usually have in it. I use a second container as a “bright” vessel for clearing and aging, and to get the beer off the yeast cake so I can harvest it. The second container also serves to settle out that last little bit of yeast that either didn’t settle out in the fermenter or got resuspended during racking, so it doesn’t wind up in the keg.
Thanks flars and 65 for your responses. I’m bottling so I think I’ll try dry hopping in the primary for the first time. I’ve brewed 9 batches since January and am finding that I want to take some short cuts to cut out some of the clean up which is, as we all know, a bit time consuming.
My apologies to Furious brew. I’m not trying to redirect your subject. I thought about starting a new subject but my question seemed to fit the thread.
I’ve brewed a grand total of two lagers so FWIW, I’ve racked to the five gallon glass carboy and got excellent results with my Goodnight Vienna lager and an Oktoberfest…I don’t secondary ales. So nobody else secondaries their lagers??
Depends on how you define “secondary”. I leave lagers for about 4 weeks in the primary bucket, then rack them to a keg. The keg acts as a bright tank, and over the next month or two the beer goes crystal clear. I toss maybe half a pint with the first pour, as it is full of sediment, but after that it is perfect.
It could be accurate to call the keg my a secondary, but probably not. I will commonly bottle a few beers at time of kegging, and they show the same character as the kegged beer. So I’d say there isn’t really a need for a dedicated secondary, unless you want to truly minimize sediment in the bottles. Or if that is the only way to keep yourself from drinking the beer before it is ready.
I am new to brewing, on my third batch. Other two i have done secondary, and came out fine. I am about 1 week into primary, 5 gallons, of an ipa. Looks like in most cases, secondary not needed. My local brew store told me 2 weeks primary, two weeks secondary. Can i leave in primary? 4 weeks, thoughts? And go…
Yes.
You can. This might be a good opportunity to see if secondaries work for YOU or not. For me, they work wonders as I want to leave as much sediment in the fermenter as possible rather than in the keg. YMMV.
As of now i am just bottling. Its not a big deal for me to put in secobdary, but if truley not needed then kind of a waste of time, etc
