My opinion only but I wouldn’t wait until fermentation is completed if I add dry hops to the primary since I would like a co2 cap in the bucket. If you wait until fermentation is totally done I would say secondary with very little head space.
OTOH, there is a fair amount of evidence (including my own experience) that removing the beer from the yeast before dry hopping gives you a better hop aroma.
I mostly dry hop in the keg but to be honest I’ve made good beer both ways. I guess it comes down to what you’re comfortable doing. If I were bottling I would just add a little bit more to the primary to make up the difference. I don’t have the time or inclination to play with my beer more than I have to.
Depends on how you define “secondary”. I leave lagers for about 4 weeks in the primary bucket, then rack them to a keg. The keg acts as a bright tank, and over the next month or two the beer goes crystal clear. I toss maybe half a pint with the first pour, as it is full of sediment, but after that it is perfect.
It could be accurate to call the keg my a secondary, but probably not. I will commonly bottle a few beers at time of kegging, and they show the same character as the kegged beer. So I’d say there isn’t really a need for a dedicated secondary, unless you want to truly minimize sediment in the bottles. Or if that is the only way to keep yourself from drinking the beer before it is ready.[/quote]
Not trying to hijack here but this is very interesting. My first attempt at a lager was pretty bad, all kinds of issues and it came out barely drinkable. I did rack to a secondary and lagered for almost 2 months. So you rack to a keg and put it in the keezer at what temp? Do you add priming sugar? or just seal up keg and leave it for a a month or 2?
Depends on how you define “secondary”. I leave lagers for about 4 weeks in the primary bucket, then rack them to a keg. The keg acts as a bright tank, and over the next month or two the beer goes crystal clear. I toss maybe half a pint with the first pour, as it is full of sediment, but after that it is perfect.
It could be accurate to call the keg my a secondary, but probably not. I will commonly bottle a few beers at time of kegging, and they show the same character as the kegged beer. So I’d say there isn’t really a need for a dedicated secondary, unless you want to truly minimize sediment in the bottles. Or if that is the only way to keep yourself from drinking the beer before it is ready.[/quote]
Not trying to hijack here but this is very interesting. My first attempt at a lager was pretty bad, all kinds of issues and it came out barely drinkable. I did rack to a secondary and lagered for almost 2 months. So you rack to a keg and put it in the keezer at what temp? Do you add priming sugar? or just seal up keg and leave it for a a month or 2?[/quote]
No priming sugar, just hook up the gas and let it carbonate that way. Leaving it a month or two at keezer temp is exactly the same as “lagering”.
OTOH, there is a fair amount of evidence (including my own experience) that removing the beer from the yeast before dry hopping gives you a better hop aroma.[/quote]
I wouldnt say better…I moved to dry hopping while fermentation is slowing by the recomendation of a few brewpub brewers and then again right before kegging and that has been great.
Dry hopping while the beer is still on the yeast can result in increased levels of geraniol. I’ve had that happen which is why I now get the beer off the yeast before dry hopping.
If your yeast is capable of converting these compounds, it can do some incredible things to the flavor profile. I’ve only started tinkering with this, though.
If your yeast is capable of converting these compounds, it can do some incredible things to the flavor profile. I’ve only started tinkering with this, though.[/quote]
Stan wrote about it in Zymurgy a year or so ago. I had experienced it in a batch previous to that. I rebrewed the beer exactly, except I xferred before dry hopping. No geraniol.
From Wikipedia:
Geraniol is a monoterpenoid and an alcohol. It is the primary part of rose oil, palmarosa oil, and citronella oil (Java type). It also occurs in small quantities in geranium, lemon, and many other essential oils. It appears as a clear to pale-yellow oil that is insoluble in water, but soluble in most common organic solvents. It has a rose-like scent and is commonly used in perfumes. It is used in flavors such as peach, raspberry, grapefruit, red apple, plum, lime, orange, lemon, watermelon, pineapple, and blueberry.
Research has shown geraniol to be an effective plant-based mosquito repellent.[3][4] On the other hand, it can attract bees as it is produced by the scent glands of honey bees to help them mark nectar-bearing flowers and locate the entrances to their hives.[5]
Not from Wikipedia:
BLECH!
[quote=“Old_Dawg”]From Wikipedia:
Geraniol is a monoterpenoid and an alcohol. It is the primary part of rose oil, palmarosa oil, and citronella oil (Java type). It also occurs in small quantities in geranium, lemon, and many other essential oils. It appears as a clear to pale-yellow oil that is insoluble in water, but soluble in most common organic solvents. It has a rose-like scent and is commonly used in perfumes. It is used in flavors such as peach, raspberry, grapefruit, red apple, plum, lime, orange, lemon, watermelon, pineapple, and blueberry.
Research has shown geraniol to be an effective plant-based mosquito repellent.[3][4] On the other hand, it can attract bees as it is produced by the scent glands of honey bees to help them mark nectar-bearing flowers and locate the entrances to their hives.[5]
Not from Wikipedia:
BLECH![/quote]
Yeah, having my dry hops come out smelling like roses and geraniums is not the outcome I was looking for!
[quote=“Denny”][quote=“Old_Dawg”]From Wikipedia:
Geraniol is a monoterpenoid and an alcohol. It is the primary part of rose oil, palmarosa oil, and citronella oil (Java type). It also occurs in small quantities in geranium, lemon, and many other essential oils. It appears as a clear to pale-yellow oil that is insoluble in water, but soluble in most common organic solvents. It has a rose-like scent and is commonly used in perfumes. It is used in flavors such as peach, raspberry, grapefruit, red apple, plum, lime, orange, lemon, watermelon, pineapple, and blueberry.
Research has shown geraniol to be an effective plant-based mosquito repellent.[3][4] On the other hand, it can attract bees as it is produced by the scent glands of honey bees to help them mark nectar-bearing flowers and locate the entrances to their hives.[5]
Not from Wikipedia:
BLECH![/quote]
Yeah, having my dry hops come out smelling like roses and geraniums is not the outcome I was looking for![/quote]
I have never experienced that effect before, is this when most of the yeast has floculated out or anytime. TImes on dry hops? I dry hop when fermentation is barley going on to keep them in suspension and then a second time when it has finished and never had any issues. I usually never go over 3 or 4 days on either dry hopping
My point was that some yeasts, such as WLP644, most strains of brett, and (unconfirmed) some English ale yeasts can convert intermediate compounds such as gerianol into different aromatic compounds. Citra has a very high gerianol content, which when exposed to 644, really takes the tropical/citrus aromatics to a whole new level. Without this transformation, you can be stuck with grassy/hay/vegetal characteristics. I’ve also experimented with this and Centennial.
Michael Tonsmeire had an article this past summer on this topic which really caught my interest (in BYO perhaps?) I’ll look it up tonight, but he specifically recommends adding dry hops during the last stages of primary fermentation for the purposes of allowing the yeast to free up the aromatic aglycones in the hops.
Not saying it’s better or worse than dry hopping after removing the beer from the yeast. It’s definitely different, though!
[quote=“porkchop”]My point was that some yeasts, such as WLP644, most strains of brett, and (unconfirmed) some English ale yeasts can convert intermediate compounds such as gerianol into different aromatic compounds. Citra has a very high gerianol content, which when exposed to 644, really takes the tropical/citrus aromatics to a whole new level. Without this transformation, you can be stuck with grassy/hay/vegetal characteristics. I’ve also experimented with this and Centennial.
Michael Tonsmeire had an article this past summer on this topic which really caught my interest (in BYO perhaps?) I’ll look it up tonight, but he specifically recommends adding dry hops during the last stages of primary fermentation for the purposes of allowing the yeast to free up the aromatic aglycones in the hops.
Not saying it’s better or worse than dry hopping after removing the beer from the yeast. It’s definitely different, though![/quote]
I got the tip from a brewhouse in MN that had a great hop character that I have never noticed before after talking with the brewer he said they dry hop at the end of primary and i tired that and it was not exact but with that and then another dry hop right before kegging its given me the best character and aroma.
I know there are quite a few brewers doing it this way
Yeah, the other advantage for me is that I only bottle, and I suspect that the reason hop aroma dies so quickly is oxidation. By dry hopping while the yeast are still slightly active, you have the opportunity to scrub some of the O2 introduced. Not sure if it’s helped, I need to try it a few more times in some split batches. My understanding is that the yeast can pull some of the hop compounds out of solution when they fall out of suspension, but I think that might be worth it to me without the ability to keg. The jury is still out on this one, though.
I see no difference in kegging and bottling dry hopping. Exceot when I add hops to the keg and drink quickly.
Yes the yeast can pull out some compounds if the yeast is to active, I only throw them in when I have a coupl/few points to go and then dry hop again right before kegging.
It help scrub out o2 from when I add them but the agitation with a little fermentation going on seems to extract more compounds because I cannot replicate it without doing it.
After a week or 2 of fermentation when it’s finished and the yeast has dropped. Dry hopped for maybe 3-5 days at room temps. What’s the purpose of dry hopping twice? Have you tried it with only one or the other?
After a week or 2 of fermentation when it’s finished and the yeast has dropped. Dry hopped for maybe 3-5 days at room temps. What’s the purpose of dry hopping twice? Have you tried it with only one or the other?[/quote]
Yes I have tried it all the different combos. Dry hopping like you do. Dry hopping with just primary slowing, then each combo with double dry hopping
THe purpose of dry hopping twice? Exceptional aroma and flaor
There are times when racking to a carboy is appropriate.
Yep. Although I rack to a keg and dry hop there.
