What’s everyone opinion on table salt.They say in small addition can accentuate perceived flavors from other ingredient and give your brew a soft rounded flavor. But should not be used in conjunction with gypsum. If your water tested to 7ppm sodium chloride what effect would this have on the your finished beer. Would adding half a tsp to five gallons be beneficial to achieving this soft rounded flavor
Gypsum has nothing to do with anything.
If you want to add a little salt to your brew, go for it. A teaspoon in 5 gallons doesn’t seem to be too much. Try it. Certainly appropriate in even greater quantities in certain old European styles such as gose, so why not try it in other styles as well if you like.
I think the point to be made with chloride is to be careful with it if you have high levels of sulfate in your water, as it can cause a level of harshness in your brew. Another thing to consider, don’t use iodized salt, as iodine is toxic to yeast (not sure of the level required for toxicity, but better safe than sorry). I’m with Dave though, chloride can certainly be appropriate for a number of styles, but for me, I usually use salt in conjunction with other sodium containing compounds to balance the sodium level as needed, as my sodium and chloride levels are both very low in my water supply, and for me, chloride is less of an issue for me than sodium where my brewing is concerned.
I under stand that excessive can cause harshness. Not sure why they say not to use in conjunction with gypsum. With a water profile 70 ppm calcium 211ppm bicarbonate 7 ppm magnesium 7 ppm sodium 21 ppm sulfate 21 ppm chloride.
Well, there is some concern with gypsum and table salt together. At high levels of sodium and sulfate, those ions do clash on our palates. So you do need to be cautious in adding table salt if the water already has high sulfate content…or you are adding a lot of sulfate-containing mineral such as gypsum or Epsom salt.
I agree that table salt can add flavor in some beer. If you are dealing low sulfate water, you can consider adding a decent amount of sodium to your brewing water. I find that sodium is tasty in darker brews at a level of about 100 ppm. It is NOT salty tasting at that level and it generally adds depth and sweetness.
Sodium becomes salty tasting at a level of around 250 ppm. A number of Gose brewers have found that that level melds nicely with the sourness and the sodium and chloride enhance the sweetness in that style.
As noted above, iodine is poisonous to yeast. But if you are only adding a minor amount of salt, you could get by with iodized salt. My recommendation is: Why risk it? Just use non-iodized salt and be OK in all cases.
Thanks everyone for the help and replys all so I am well aware that iodine is poisonous.to humans animals and yeast.
Large concentrations of iodine is toxic to humans but it is necessary in our diet, otherwise you’ll suffer from iodine deficiency, which effects billions of people worldwide.
That has little to do with our beer discussion though 
Elemental iodine is a purple solid with purple vapor and is poisonous.
Iodide is what’s in salt and is chemically different from iodine as it has an extra electron donated by another ion. Perhaps hazardous in certain quantities, I’m not sure, but it’s not a nasty purple gas.
There’s a difference.
[quote=“dmtaylo2”]Elemental iodine is a purple solid with purple vapor and is poisonous.
Iodide is what’s in salt and is chemically different from iodine as it has an extra electron donated by another ion. Perhaps hazardous in certain quantities, I’m not sure, but it’s not a nasty purple gas.
There’s a difference.[/quote]
Said it better than I did 
This interested me and I looked up a little bit of info. The lethal dose of elemental iodine (I2) is not much, around 2 grams for most people. Most iodized salt out there contains mostly NaCl with a small part of sodium iodide, which I can’t find specific toxicity info for. All I do know is that they added it to table salt to prevent iodine deficiency in people (which causes a multitude of thyroid issues).
Lack of iodide will make you fat, lazy, and stupid. Sounds a lot like me, actually! Maybe I should add iodized salt to all my beer!
:mrgreen:
[quote=“dmtaylo2”]Lack of iodide will make you fat, lazy, and stupid. Sounds a lot like me, actually! Maybe I should add iodized salt to all my beer!
So it’s the lack of iodine!! I knew I had a culprit somewhere! Thanks, Dave.
My wife’s gonna feel really bad about all the terrible things she’s said about me when she finds out I really can’t help it!
:cheers:
Ron
Use kosher salt. No iodine in that.
In my first attempt to mess with water chemistry, I added about 2 TABLESPOONS blindly to 5 gallons or wort. This was not in the mash either, but the boil.
Probably the dumbest thing I did regarding homebrewing. I have no idea why I thought it was appropriate to add as I had no analysis on my water source at the time, but I thought that if I added it, surely I would have good beer.
Ocean water would be an understatement.
Going forward, I made sure I had an up-to-date analysis on my water source and I avoid NaCl at all cost, but my water source is fairly good and I can get away with a little CaCl or CaSO4 in small amounts.
I also, found acidulated malt to be my best friend in lighter colored beers.
That’s my two cents.
Carry on.
My thoughts were recently expressed here: here
http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=124357&start=15#p1084686
(quoted below for convenience). This seems to be consistent with what Martin noted above regarding dark beers.
I will likely increase the sodium to an even higher level next time I brew a stout or porter.
[quote=“kcbeersnob”][quote=“mabrungard”]Sodium is an interesting brewing water component. It has it’s place and I think the common perception was to always keep it low. My thinking has evolved and allowing higher sodium content is OK in some cases.
[/quote]
My municipal water supply as tested by Ward Labs was found to range from 69-92ppm. I was always happy with my stouts and porters, but unhappy with the consistency of a lot of my other beers. When I switched to 100% distilled, the consistency and quality of all of my beers improved except stouts and porters. I found that they suddenly lacked the depth of flavor I wanted and had previously experienced with municipal water.
I won’t get into why unless someone is particularly interested, but last December I decided to brew a stout that would intentionally exceed the recommended sodium level in Brun’Water for the Black Malty profile. I went for 60ppm. Of course this also meant a higher chloride level since I used table salt to increase sodium. I am very pleased with the outcome. Much deeper and more complex flavor than I had experienced since switching my water source.
Finished water profile:
Calcium 70.50
Magnesium 0.00
Sodium 60.30
Sulfate 66.36
Chloride 92.95
Bicarbonte 130.43[/quote]
[quote=“kcbeersnob”]My thoughts were recently expressed here: here
http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=124357&start=15#p1084686
(quoted below for convenience). This seems to be consistent with what Martin noted above regarding dark beers.
I will likely increase the sodium to an even higher level next time I brew a stout or porter.
[quote=“kcbeersnob”][quote=“mabrungard”]Sodium is an interesting brewing water component. It has it’s place and I think the common perception was to always keep it low. My thinking has evolved and allowing higher sodium content is OK in some cases.
[/quote]
My municipal water supply as tested by Ward Labs was found to range from 69-92ppm. I was always happy with my stouts and porters, but unhappy with the consistency of a lot of my other beers. When I switched to 100% distilled, the consistency and quality of all of my beers improved except stouts and porters. I found that they suddenly lacked the depth of flavor I wanted and had previously experienced with municipal water.
I won’t get into why unless someone is particularly interested, but last December I decided to brew a stout that would intentionally exceed the recommended sodium level in Brun’Water for the Black Malty profile. I went for 60ppm. Of course this also meant a higher chloride level since I used table salt to increase sodium. I am very pleased with the outcome. Much deeper and more complex flavor than I had experienced since switching my water source.
Finished water profile:
Calcium 70.50
Magnesium 0.00
Sodium 60.30
Sulfate 66.36
Chloride 92.95
Bicarbonte 130.43[/quote][/quote]
I’m interested if you want to get in more detail. I been thinking of pushing my sodium chloride to 80 ppm in a Munich dunkel this Saturday.
I wouldn’t push a Dunkel to 80 ppm. That is too pale a beer for that and the flavor is more delicate than for porters and stouts. I think that somewhere around half that level could be a safe starting point and then do some in-glass testing with calculated and measured table salt additions to see if the flavor is better at higher sodium levels.
[quote=“damian_winter”]
I’m interested if you want to get in more detail. I been thinking of pushing my sodium chloride to 80 ppm in a Munich dunkel this Saturday.[/quote]
I’ve had some amazing, deep, complex flavored commercial stouts. I’ve also had some that are ok and far from life altering. In December I was drinking one of the later ilk. I grabbed a bag of peanuts in the shell to munch on. A handful or two later, I took a sip of the stout. The beer had transformed into something completely different. It was suddenly deeply flavored, complex and apparently life altering thanks to the dusting of salt that coated my lips from the peanuts.
That got me thinking about how disappointed I’ve been with my homebrewed stouts and porters. I had been using chloride levels in the 60+ range. I had been keeping the sodium levels very low. The salted peanut experience got me thinking that maybe the low sodium was the reason my stouts and porters were flaccid.
Martin - you planning to update the recommended ranges for the Black X water profiles based on your more recent thinking regarding sodium in dark beers?
Hmm? I guess I should!
[quote=“mabrungard”]I wouldn’t push a Dunkel to 80 ppm. That is too pale a beer for that and the flavor is more delicate than for porters and stouts. I think that somewhere around half that level could be a safe starting point and then do some in-glass testing with calculated and measured table salt additions to see if the flavor is better at higher sodium levels.[/quote] Thanks Martin yeah am thinking that 80 ppm in my dunkel might be a bit much. Don’t want it to turn out like salty pumpernickel bread. Most my dunkels turn out great. Think I might push few stouts in that range instead.
