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Rye and Mosaic

Howdy, all.

I’m tinkering with recipe that uses mostly Mosaic hops, which I’ve never used before. I’m expecting exotic fruitiness. But I wanted to add some rye to the brew as well (as is my normal practice). Any thoughts on the flavors? Any clash between Mosaic and rye?

Thanks.

[code]BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Mosaic
Brewer: Larry Tate
Asst Brewer:
Style: American IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications

Boil Size: 13.87 gal
Post Boil Volume: 12.74 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 12.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 11.50 gal
Estimated OG: 1.061 SG
Estimated Color: 9.1 SRM
Estimated IBU: 95.0 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 76.6 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:

Amt Name Type # %/IBU
12.00 gal Tate Aquifers Water 1 -
23 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 85.2 %
2 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 3 7.4 %
2 lbs Rye, Flaked (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 7.4 %
2.00 oz Magnum [12.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 35.8 IBUs
2.00 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Boil 20.0 m Hop 6 22.1 IBUs
1.00 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Boil 20.0 m Hop 7 11.1 IBUs
2.50 oz Mosaic [12.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 8 16.2 IBUs
2.50 oz Mosaic [12.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 9 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 60.0 Hop 10 9.7 IBUs
1.0 pkg California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [35. Yeast 11 -
2.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Mosaic [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs

Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 27 lbs

Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 8.69 gal of water at 163.3 F 152.0 F 60 min

Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (1.61gal, 7.06gal) of 168.0 F water
Notes:

Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/code]


The Mosaic hops are super strong and will cover up your rye completely. Use about 3 times as much and you might be able to taste just a slight hint of rye. Use 4 times as much and you’ll start to taste it more.

Hm, now you are scaring me with the Mosaic. Sounds like they are flavor grenades.

Yes. Yes they are. One of the strongest hops you have ever tasted in your life. A little goes a very very long way.

This was not my experience. It was definitely there and obvious but not overpowering and I had no problem tasting the underlying base malts. I used about 4 oz of leaf hops between late additions and dry hop.

EDIT: I just read your recipe and there is quite a bit more than I used. Curiously you have 2 additions at 20 minutes of the same hops. was that an error or do you really mean 3oz at 20 minutes?

At 7.4% rye, you’ll have a hard time telling it’s there no matter what hops you use.

Yikes. Backing away slowly from the Mosaic packages… Perhaps I’ll dial up the rye and tone down the hops.

Something more like this, which is 83 IBUs or so:

[code]BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Mosaic 100
Brewer: Larry Tate
Asst Brewer:
Style: American IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications

Boil Size: 13.87 gal
Post Boil Volume: 12.74 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 12.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 11.50 gal
Estimated OG: 1.065 SG
Estimated Color: 9.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 83.3 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 76.6 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:

Amt Name Type # %/IBU
12.00 gal Tate Aquifer, NH Water 1 -
23 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 79.3 %
4 lbs Rye, Flaked (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 13.8 %
2 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 4 6.9 %
2.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 5 40.1 IBUs
2.00 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Boil 20.0 m Hop 6 21.4 IBUs
2.00 oz Mosaic [12.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 7 12.5 IBUs
2.00 oz Mosaic [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 60.0 Hop 9 9.4 IBUs
1.0 pkg California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [35. Yeast 10 -
2.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Mosaic [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 12 0.0 IBUs

Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 29 lbs

Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Mash In Add 9.31 gal of water at 168.1 F 152.0 F 60 min

Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (1.23gal, 7.06gal) of 168.0 F water
Notes:

Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/code]

Closer…my opinion is that you need at least 15% rye malt for it to be noticeable in the beer. I prefer closer to 20% and have gone as high as 40%. I don’t find flaked rye to have as much flavor as rye malt, so you may want to go a little higher.

If you want to get a feeling for what Mosaic can do check out Souther Tier’s 2xOne. It’s basically a single grain single hop beer. They use Mosaic to compensate and it still comes off as an IPA but maybe a little fruitier IMO.

Ok, thanks guys. I moved the rye up to 5 pounds–almost 17% of the grain bill. I’m shooting for around 80 IBU.

I have done a mosaic ryePA and here is mine. I had plenty of people say they could taste the rye, but as you can see I used less hops. I myself, and others felt the mosaic gave off a blueberry flavor and maybe the citra and mosaic did not work very well together. This beer came out a bit more fruity than I wanted , but was a decent beer. If I were to brew it again I would change a few things, but I figured I would at least share.

Ingredients:

Amt Name Type # %/IBU
11 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 81.5 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 2 11.1 %
12.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 3 5.6 %
4.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 4 1.9 %
0.50 oz Mosaic [12.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 20.8 IBUs
0.25 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 6 5.6 IBUs
0.25 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 7 5.1 IBUs
0.50 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 8 7.5 IBUs
0.50 oz Mosaic [12.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 7.5 IBUs
0.25 oz Chinook [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 10 2.2 IBUs
0.25 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 11 2.1 IBUs
0.25 oz Mosaic [12.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 12 2.1 IBUs
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 13 -

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