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Negra Medelo Clone Help

Hi All… I am working on a Negra Medelo Clone. I am using the recipe from CloneBrews and ran into a couple of questions. After inputing the recipe into BeerSmith my SRM is coming out at 11.6. The book lists the SRM at 21, which seems about right. If I were close it wouldn’t be a big deal but that seems fairly sizable. I did change it to all-grain and adjusted for my efficiency. I am worried if I just start increasing the specialty grains it will throw the flavor off.

My second question: it asks for Hallertau Hersbrucker which is a little tough for me to find. I’ve been told that I can replace with either Hallertauer or Hallertaeuer Mittelfrueh. Just a general question, what are the flavor differences between these?

Lastly, it calls for Wyeast Bohemian Lager, which last time I used it was also tough to get. I guess I could order it but could I just use Southern or Northern German Larger or maybe Bock yeast.

Thanks!

Here is the recipe (including my adjustments):

Est OG- 1.050
IBUs- 29
SRM- 11.6

8.75 lbs German Pilsner (2 row)
2 lbs Vienna
6 oz Caramel 60L
4 oz Caravienne Malt
2 oz Chocolate Malt

If you go to the MoreBeer forums and search for Roger456’s posts on Negra Modelo he had arecipe that was supposed to be spot on :cheers:

Or look here

http://forums.morebeer.com/viewtopic.ph ... lo#p165566 http://forums.morebeer.com/viewtopic.ph ... gra+Modelo

I have been using this recipe for quite some time now and my neighbors say it taste spot on:

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Negra Modelo clone
Brewer: Wes
Asst Brewer: Beer Wench
Style: Vienna Lager
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (49.0)

Recipe Specifications

Boil Size: 7.43 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.98 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.50 gal
Estimated OG: 1.050 SG
Estimated Color: 10.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 19.0 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 68.0 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:

5 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 43.0 %
3 lbs 8.0 oz Pilsner (2 Row) Rahr (1.6 SRM) Grain 30.1 %
3 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 25.8 %
2.0 oz Carafa II (412.0 SRM) Grain 1.1 %
1.25 oz US Hallertauer [4.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 16.6 IBUs
0.50 oz US Hallertauer [4.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 2.4 IBUs
1.0 pkg Mexican Lager - Grupo Modelo (White Labs Yeast

Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 11 lbs 10.0 oz

Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 14.41 qt of water at 168.2 F 152.0 F 90 min

Sparge: Drain mash tun, Batch sparge with 1 steps (5.22gal) of 168.0 F water
Notes:

Pitch yeast at 44 degrees and let it rise to 48 to 50 degrees and let it ferment for 2 to 4 weeks. Lager for another 4 to 6 weeks at 35 degrees.

Primary, 14 to 21 days, 48-52 degrees F
Diacetyl rest, 3 days, 62-65 degrees F
Secondary, 6 weeks, 34 degrees F (reduced from diacetyl rest temps to 34 degrees)
Carbonate by your chosen method.

Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com

Thanks for the help! I’ll check it out. :cheers:

This sounds good. Anyone want to try an extract recipe version of this for me ?

Unless you have a source for Wyermann’s Vienna LME it will be tough to get a Vienna Lager to taste right :cheers:

I have made a number of these beers that were not exactly NM but what I would refer to as American Dark Lagers with a Mexican twist. Some pilsner malt (or just 2-row) with Vienna or Munich and then some Crystal 120L to boost the color along with 2-3 ounces of debittered black malt which will also boost color without adding a lot of roastiness. Any clean hop is okay here including anything in the Hallertau family, Tettnanger, Hersbrucker, Spalt, Mt. Hood, Liberty, etc. The White Labs 940 Mexican Lager yeast is outstanding and I always have some on hand although it’s a platinum strain. If you want an extract version, you could steep the Vienna and/or Munich and then use a “pale”, “light” or “gold” LME or DME. You would also steep the crystal and debittered black as well. Also, I have encountered a number of beers from Mexico (NM and Indio among others) that appear darker than their flavor would suggest. Some people have suggested using Sinamar (a dark, grain-based coloring that has no real flavor to it) in beers like this to keep the flavor clean but the color dark. I have a bottle of it and it works wonders. If you want a specific extract formulation, just say it and I’ll whip one up for you. Cheers.

I am going to brew the recipe (adjusted for partial mash) Intrinsic suggested tomorrow. Let you all know how it turns out. Had to make some adjustments to the hops because my brew shop was out of almost every hop I needed (for two different beers darn it). Went with so Vanguard. :cheers:

Vangaurd should work out just fine. Let me know how it turns out. I have made the above recipe about 6 times now and never deviate from it because it taste so good :slight_smile:

Ken, I’d like to take you up on your offer to come up with an extract recipe
for a mexican lager.

I loved your Mayfair Pub Ale , so I’ll let you choose. I look forward to your respose.

Thanks!

John

For Negra Modelo?

If it was me, I’d do something like this:

Steep:

6 oz Crystal 120L
8 oz Vienna or Light Munich
2 oz debittered black malt or chocolate

for 30 minutes at 150°

As the temp is ramping up, add 5 lbs “light”, “pale” or “gold” DME and 1 pound of brewer’s corn syrup. I was going to suggest that you steep the flaked corn but I’m not sure you can and this stuff is inexpensive, clear (ish) and easy to work with. It’s also readily available online and at most LHBSs.

At boiling, add about 4 to 4.5 AAUs of a mild, clean hop like Hallertau, Tettnanger, Spalt, Hersbrucker or even Mt. Hood, Liberty or Magnum. With maybe 20 minutes left, use ½ oz of Hallertau, Hersbrucker or Tettnanger.

The key here is to use White Labs 940 Mexican Lager yeast. This is a great yeast with a very clean but distinct flavor profile to it. I really, really like it and I have 2 additional vials that I picked up in the spring, hoping they would get me through the rest of the year. I’m about to fire those up sometime in the next month or so. If you don’t have 940 you could use 830 or Wyeast 2124 for good results. If you cannot make lagers, you could use 1056 or White Labs 01 but try to ferment as cool as possible. I like the idea of corn in this beer because I assume it’s in the real thing. It’s a locally available & inexpensive ingredient and I assume that it finds its way into a lot of Mexican beers. The color should be pretty good but if you prefer it darker, either use a little more of the dark grains or have Sinamar
http://www.rebelbrewer.com/shoppingcart/products/Sinamar-Coloring-Agent-%2d-4-oz..html
on hand and use 2-4 ounces in five gallons to darken the color. Cheers!

Ken I think you’re right. The key to a good Modelo is the White Labs 940 Mexican Lager yeast. I wonder if White labs got enough requests then maybe they would offer it year around. I bought 4 vile’s and still have a couple left but I try to keep a yeast cake going. I just brewed 5 gallons last week and another 5 gallons yesterday. I try to keep this beer always on tap for me and the neighbors.

Yes, when I fire it up, I try to get at least 4-5 batches out of it. I make my Hacienda Lager twice, maybe my Cabana Lager, some sort of Mexican-Vienna or dark Mexican lager, etc. The two vials I have left will get me through until March, for sure. I’ll fire one up in the next few weeks and then again in late Jan or early Feb and I’ll be good to go. It really is an awesome yeast and it gives the beer an authentic profile that many people would recognize, I believe. Cheers!

Wish I could have used the Mexican Lager. I went with Wyeast 2206 (planning to re pitch for other stuff). Like I said earlier I did a partial mash. I’ll post the recipe below, added some chocolate malt for shits and giggles. Ken, in the extract recipe wouldn’t it be better to use pilsner extract if you can get it? I know Morebeer and Northern Brewer both sell it. Just a thought. Anyway mine is fermenting right now. Had some issues getting going (to cold), got a temp controller and now it’s bubbling along nicely. I will report back when the results.

OG: 1.051
IBU’s: 26
Color: 14
Est ABV: 5%
5.5 gallon batch

5 lb Vienna Malt
3 lbs Munich Malt
2 oz Carafa II
2 oz Chocolate Malt
(dark malts were ground and put in the mash in the last 15 minutes)
1.50 oz Vanguard (5.5%) 60 min
.5 oz Vanguard (5.5%) 10 min
2.0 pkg Bavarian Lager (Wyeast 2206) in a 2 liter starter (w/ stir plate)

Mash at 152
4 gallon boil, 5.5 gallon total batch
pitch at 46 degrees, ferment at 50 degrees

I think the pilsner extract would be great if you could get it. But honestly, for a beer like this I’m not sure that I would lose sleep over it. When I was an extract brewer, I used regular “2-row” extract for just about everything. Not sure I ever used a pilsner extract. Good luck with the beer… it will still be nice with the 2206 which is a great German lager yeast. Cheers.

Keep your fingers crossed. I sent White Labs an email asking for the Mexican Lager yeast year around and well…Read for yourself:

Hi Wes,

We are just now finalizing the platinum schedule for next year and I am pretty sure that the WLP940 is going to be removed from platinum and made available year round! :slight_smile:

Pam Marshall
Sales/Customer Service
White Labs, Inc.
888-593-2785
858-536-4587 (Direct)

http://www.whitelabs.com

To WLP940 Mexican Lager yeast
Hello White Labs,
You have probably heard this asked a thousand times before but is there any chance the WLP940 Mexican Lager yeast strain could be offered year around? This is an awesome yeast and I keep a batch of some sort of Mexican lager going all the time just for the yeast. Would love to see this strain year around.

Sincerely,

Wesley Crystal

Thanks Ken. Morebeer is close to me and they have it. Though only in 4 to 5 bags. Don’t need that much and according to the manager it doesn’t keep all that well. Good to know for next time. :cheers:

Oh meant to also ask… I am pretty sure I know the answer but since this is only my second larger thought I would ask to be sure. So the beer has be ferementing now for just over a week. Is it normal that there is no airlock activity? I mean I have a good 1 inch + of krausen so I assume it’s doing it’s thing. I know you don’t get the crazy ferementation of an ale but the airlock is basically flat. Just thought I would check.

Airlock should still show activity. Make sure that everything is secure (plastic lid if it’s a bucket, stopper or other cover for a carboy, airlock, proper amount of liquid in the airlock, etc). I ferment lagers in a fridge and I still see the airlock bloop every few seconds.

[quote=“Intrinsic”]Keep your fingers crossed. I sent White Labs an email asking for the Mexican Lager yeast year around and well…Read for yourself:

Hi Wes,

We are just now finalizing the platinum schedule for next year and I am pretty sure that the WLP940 is going to be removed from platinum and made available year round! :slight_smile:

Pam Marshall
Sales/Customer Service
White Labs, Inc.
888-593-2785
858-536-4587 (Direct)

http://www.whitelabs.com

To WLP940 Mexican Lager yeast
Hello White Labs,
You have probably heard this asked a thousand times before but is there any chance the WLP940 Mexican Lager yeast strain could be offered year around? This is an awesome yeast and I keep a batch of some sort of Mexican lager going all the time just for the yeast. Would love to see this strain year around.

Sincerely,

Wesley Crystal[/quote]

Oh, this is so sweet. I love this yeast and easily have 5 or 6 recipes for it. It’s the next strain I plan to make a starter for (I have 2 vials left from the 2011 release) and now that it will be around all the time, I won’t have to hoard it! Cheers.

Awesome! I now brew everything with this yeast! Even pilsner. But have 2 vials of urquell yeast in the fridge, but I really love this mexican strain.

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