Mash hopping

[voodoo_donut]

@brew_cat

I’m curious, like to investigate things. Can’t always believe what you’ve read. Im going to do a test batch. Next time I get the grains out I’m going to do a one gallon test batch with nothing but mash hops then we shall see. Will you believe what i write ?

Yes. Straightforward test to see what remains of the hops after the boil/fermentation/packaging with just mash hops. I’m curious also.

@brew_cat

Remember 20 years ago if you said a cloudy beer that looked and tasted like juice would be very popular who would have believed that nonsense

Yeah, I remember I was talking about NEIPAs years ago on this very forum and the “old” guard was almost hostile to the idea, flawed “cabbage patch kids” beer…well, they are going on about 15 years now as of January!
(I include Heady Topper in the style, clearly the muse for all that followed,as they are the Hazy Vermont DIPA, if a bit more bitter(or a lot more bitter) than what NEIPAs have morphed into…

[damian_winter]

This is the best way i know how to explain it. It comes doing to extraction and utilization. For example 3 0z magnum 15 AA
Now now adding hops to the mash
Util: 0.059
AAUs: 45
Now the oils you extracted in the mash are soluble and non soluble lets just say 50/50. The soluble 0.029.5 utilization that is the oils that responsible for flavor and aroma’s that during the boil get boiled off during 60 mintue boil.The non soluble 0.029.5 utilization that gets isomerize of alpha acids giving bitterness during the boil. This gives you from both soluble and non soluble
IBUs: 0.01
Util: 0
AAUs: 45
With first Wort hoping soluble are still boiled out of the wort leaving little to no aroma or flavor in a 60 minute boil. The utilization goes up due to the hops having constant contact with the wort during the boil and full exposure to isomerize of alpha acids giving bitterness.

[sneezles61]

^^^^^ ^^^ Sneezles61

[brew_cat]

I love when he talks like that i sit quietly and nod my head

[sneezles61]

Way over my brew talent… Perhaps its time to dim the light…
We are very lucky to have peeps like Damien and Loopie here to keep us up to beat about why we don’t go Professional… I like things being very simple…eh? Sneezles61
EDIT: you like when he talks… dirty in yer ear?

[uncdeo]

Of course he does.

[dmtaylo2]

I’ve always wanted to try mash hopping. Most people say it’s a waste of hops. But if you have hops to waste… play around with it. Might make life a little easier not having to deal with hop bags, hop spiders, hop sludge after the boil. I grow my own hops and always have a lot on hand. Certainly with whole hops there are advantages vs. having to bag them in the boil. I always figured to expect low IBU contribution… but then if you have a lot of free homegrown hops to use up anyway, then why not just give it a try. I probably wouldn’t do this for store-bought hops, that could get expensive.

[brew_cat]

I have a bunch of older hops I’ve bought in bulk to use up so I’m going to try some in the 1 gallon test batch. I used an ounce in the 5 gallon batch. Maybe a 1/2 in the 1 gallon since that’s all I’m adding. What do you think?

[hd4mark]

So my dumbed down take on this is… You add hops to the mash to prevent some work and clean up with the boil and chances are that you get terrible utilization. Am I the only one that doesn’t see much reason other than another way to screw around with your brewing?

[brew_cat]

I guess so. What’s it cost a couple bucks in hops so even slight utilization would be fairly cheap. And besides everything I read talks about add them to the grist and straining them out with the grain. My process will keep them in the wort to go through the boil. Basically a FWH with an hour long steep.

[brew_cat]

Also now if it’s lowering my pH I’ll save 75¢ in acid malt and get one more chance to smell the awesome aroma of the hops.

[damian_winter]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news. The amount of hops that you would have to use in the mash tun to lower ph is is going to cost more than than your 75 cents. I believe Denny conn had a post on a college or university that tested that theory. @denny do you care to chime in with us on what that was

[brew_cat]

OK so it doesn’t lower the pH but I’m still going to do my testing .

[damian_winter]

Please do and yes i will listen and read my friend

[loopie_beer]

@brew_cat

My process will keep them in the wort to go through the boil. Basically a FWH with an hour long steep.

You are exactly right. With your process it will be no different than me doing an hour sparge then boiling. But as indicated the flavor and aromas oils will be boiled off.

IIRC mash hopping came from the IBU wars of days past. In those cases many brewers wasted a great deal of hops doing mash hopping and 400 IBU beers. After all IBU thresholds are 100-110.

[denny]

I don’t recall any studies off the top of my head but I can tell you that hops don’t have enough acid to even consider using them for pH adjustment. I’m judging in Mexico at the moment, but when I get home I’ll try to dig up more info.

[voodoo_donut]

duplicate

[voodoo_donut]

Don’t drink the water! Drink beer!

[denny]

Didn’t drink the water but suffering anyway…TMI!

[voodoo_donut]

Ouch, Sorry to hear that. Pepto Bismol has amazing restorative powers.