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Jamil's Vienna

I made this beer in April and let it lager at 35° for 2 months before bringing it to the taps. My keg of Bordertown Dark Lager went down on Friday and I replaced it with this…

This is one delicious and well-balanced beer. I can’t remember how close I came to using Jamil’s recipe verbatim but it’s either right on or very close. Looks like 4 lbs Vienna (Best Malz), 3 lbs pilsner (Durst Turbo Pils), 3 lbs Munich 10L (Weyermann) and 2 ounces Carafa. 1½ ounces of Hallertau pellets for 60 and ½ oz for 10 or so. 2308 on the yeast. This was the second glass from the keg and check out that clarity. Big ups to Jamil… nice recipe.

Now that you’ve actually gone to Vienna, how does it compare? Any changes you would make?

Are you ready for this? No Vienna Lager in Vienna. If there is any, I didn’t find it and I didn’t leave many stones unturned. :lol: We were invited to dinner by my daughter’s host family (this was a high school orchestra trip that I turned into a Beercation) and when I asked the host Dad about “Vienna Lager”, he said, “Yes, we have a lot of lager here in Vienna…” and I clarified that I was looking for a style “Vienna Lager” and he didn’t know what I was talking about. The closest I got to Vienna Lager was in Prague at a place called Pivovar U Tri Ruzi and it may have been the best beer of the trip. I posted about that in my trip report thread. Otherwise, Jamil’s is excellent. It’s similar to Negro Modelo (is that an insult? I hope not) but it’s better than that. Dark, rich, creamy, balanced, etc. I wouldn’t change a thing but I might experiment with different yeasts just to see how it could be changed. That said, I love 2308. Cheers.

Are you ready for this? No Vienna Lager in Vienna. If there is any, I didn’t find it and I didn’t leave many stones unturned. :lol: We were invited to dinner by my daughter’s host family (this was a high school orchestra trip that I turned into a Beercation) and when I asked the host Dad about “Vienna Lager”, he said, “Yes, we have a lot of lager here in Vienna…” and I clarified that I was looking for a style “Vienna Lager” and he didn’t know what I was talking about. The closest I got to Vienna Lager was in Prague at a place called Pivovar U Tri Ruzi and it may have been the best beer of the trip. I posted about that in my trip report thread. Otherwise, Jamil’s is excellent. It’s similar to Negro Modelo (is that an insult? I hope not) but it’s better than that. Dark, rich, creamy, balanced, etc. I wouldn’t change a thing but I might experiment with different yeasts just to see how it could be changed. That said, I love 2308. Cheers.[/quote]

I saw your trip pictures, looked AWWWESOME. Everytime my wife and I go to Europe, she limits me to 2 breweries a day. Sooooo I go to whatever local supermarket or bottle shop we are near and stock up on beers that are near to my heart and every single one I haven’t seen before. The look on EVERY check out person’s face is priceless. Rarely do europeans get more than one kind of beer.

I brewed Jamil’s recipe ages ago and it was rather blah to me back then. BUT that was before I better understood yeast pitching rates, oxygenation, and water chemistry. Looking at the recipe, I’m pretty sure it was turn out to be a fine beer nowadays. Maybe as even fine as yours looks!!!

I recently got to the best of show round in a local comp with this beer. I thought is turned out really good. My only real critique said I should lower the bitterness a bit.

Yum, that looks nice.

It’s funny that you mention the bitterness because as I go back and see that the recipe was 1.5 oz Hallertau for 60 and .5 oz for 10, I went with 1.25 ounces first and .75 oz later. I also don’t see any AA% in any of the mentions of Jamil’s recipe. My Hallertaus were 4.5% so my total IBUs were 29. I may have concluded that using 1.5 oz of 4.5% hops (6.75 AAU) would’ve been too much. Not sure but it’s a nice beer. I also mentioned to another brewer that the roastiness of the Carafa (I realize some people say there is no roastiness in Carafa but I do pick it up) fades and ends up becoming a part of the overall beer… especially if you give the beer a chance to lager.

Yeah, I didn’t think it was too bitter but, you know, judges always have to be judging. :blah:

I brewed mine in mid-December and didn’t tap it until the end of April. Needless to say, a tear was shed when the keg blew 3 weeks later.

EDIT: According to BCS, the IBU’s of the Hallertauer are 4% AA (1.5 oz at 60, 0.5 oz at 10).

Speaking of European Beers, I’m looking to brew a Munich Helles next week.

95% Pils, 5% Carafoam, splash of Acidulated Malt.
Total IBU’s around 18 with a 60 min addition and .5oz at 20 minutes.

Double decocted with the main rest around 150F.

Wyeast Oktoberfest blend

Looking at a Softer pale water profile with SO4 around 30, Cl around 39.

Getting pretty excited!!

I’ve got a run of lagers that I can’t wait to taste in a couple months.

[quote=“brewingdan”]Speaking of European Beers, I’m looking to brew a Munich Helles next week.

95% Pils, 5% Carafoam, splash of Acidulated Malt.
Total IBU’s around 18 with a 60 min addition and .5oz at 20 minutes.

Double decocted with the main rest around 150F.

Wyeast Oktoberfest blend

Looking at a Softer pale water profile with SO4 around 30, Cl around 39.

Getting pretty excited!!

I’ve got a run of lagers that I can’t wait to taste in a couple months.[/quote]
After all the Helles I had in Europe, I plan on making one as well. I have 2124 as well as the White Labs platinum Helles strain WLP860. I know that one is getting a little old so it would require a starter on the stirplate, plenty of O2, maybe some nutrient, etc. I also have 830. I need to lower my bicarb so a lot of distilled water would be necessary (probably 75%) and I would add CaCl and no (or very little) sulfate… just my preference. I’d love to make one similar to the ones I had over there. Cheers.

I did a Vienna Lager about a month ago. I did an “old school” recipe though, almost 100% Vienna malt a couple of ounces of Carafa II for color and a dash of Melonodin malt if I remember correctly. I also did a double decoction just so I could get those nice malty notes. Initial tasting leaves me optimistic, hopefully it will do ok in the contest I have coming up.

I have no doubt it will be dynamite. Good luck with the beer and the competition. :cheers:

I’m enjoying a keg of that same beer right now, and I’m very pleased with the results. This was my first lager, and it’s really clean and tasty. I followed the recipe as written.

I used the 2308 for Jamil’s Munich Dunkel too, and that beer is excellent as well. :cheers:

[quote=“El Capitan”]I’m enjoying a keg of that same beer right now, and I’m very pleased with the results. This was my first lager, and it’s really clean and tasty. I followed the recipe as written.

I used the 2308 for Jamil’s Munich Dunkel too, and that beer is excellent as well. :cheers: [/quote]
Hmm, didn’t see the dunkel recipe. Any chance you could post it? After some REALLY nice dunkels in Prague and Munich, I’d love to make some at home.

Hey, Ken. Here’s a dunkel that came out well:

Munich Dunkel
10 Gallons

13.5 lbs German dark Munich malt
3.5 lbs Pilsner malt
.375 lb Carafa II malt
.75 lb CaraFoam malt

Decoction mash; 128F, 148F, 168F mashout

1 oz Spalt + 1 oz Saaz @ 60 minutes
1 oz Spalt @ 20 minutes

Estimated OG 1.050, IBU 24

White Labs WLP-838 Southern German Yeast

:cheers:

[quote=“BryanH”]Hey, Ken. Here’s a dunkel that came out well:

Munich Dunkel
10 Gallons

13.5 lbs German dark Munich malt
3.5 lbs Pilsner malt
.375 lb Carafa II malt
.75 lb CaraFoam malt

Decoction mash; 128F, 148F, 168F mashout

1 oz Spalt + 1 oz Saaz @ 60 minutes
1 oz Spalt @ 20 minutes

Estimated OG 1.050, IBU 24

White Labs WLP-838 Southern German Yeast

:cheers: [/quote]

hmm - looks good -might have to make that soon, though Tett instead of spalt (don’t have spalt) and 833 yeast. Thanks BryanH!

[quote=“BryanH”]Hey, Ken. Here’s a dunkel that came out well:

Munich Dunkel
10 Gallons

13.5 lbs German dark Munich malt
3.5 lbs Pilsner malt
.375 lb Carafa II malt
.75 lb CaraFoam malt

Decoction mash; 128F, 148F, 168F mashout

1 oz Spalt + 1 oz Saaz @ 60 minutes
1 oz Spalt @ 20 minutes

Estimated OG 1.050, IBU 24

White Labs WLP-838 Southern German Yeast

:cheers: [/quote]

hmm - looks good -might have to make that soon, though Tett instead of spalt (don’t have spalt) and 833 yeast. Thanks BryanH!

[quote=“BryanH”]Hey, Ken. Here’s a dunkel that came out well:

Munich Dunkel
10 Gallons

13.5 lbs German dark Munich malt
3.5 lbs Pilsner malt
.375 lb Carafa II malt
.75 lb CaraFoam malt

Decoction mash; 128F, 148F, 168F mashout

1 oz Spalt + 1 oz Saaz @ 60 minutes
1 oz Spalt @ 20 minutes
Estimated OG 1.050, IBU 24

White Labs WLP-838 Southern German Yeast

:cheers: [/quote]
Thanks Amigo. I had a dunkel called “Master” at U Vejvodu and also U Fleku in Prague and they were both really, really nice examples of the style. I would love to make one of these myself. I’d bet I could sub 2308 for the 838 and be all good, right? Cheers and thanks again.

[quote=“Ken Lenard”]
Thanks Amigo. I had a dunkel called “Master” at U Vejvodu and also U Fleku in Prague and they were both really, really nice examples of the style. I would love to make one of these myself. I’d bet I could sub 2308 for the 838 and be all good, right? Cheers and thanks again.[/quote]

2308? absolutely, that will be fine. This is made to German specs. Unfortunately I have not had one of the Czech dark lagers although I have salivated over them on Tony Bourdain’s Czech TV tour as well as the log of your recent European jaunt. Although I don’t have my own radio show I can assure you this recipe makes a very palatable beer. :cheers:

Here’s Jamil’s Dunkel. I have to say, if you don’t own this book, it’s a great one. I’ve brewed a lot of these recipes and they’re all very good.

Old Dark Bear

OG 1.054
FG 1.014
22 IBU
5.3% abv

12.2 lb Munich
6 oz Carafa II

Mash @ 154

1.2 oz Hallertau, 4.0% aa, 60 min
0.5 oz Hallertau, 4.0% aa, 20 min

WLP833 German Bock Lager
WY2308 Munich Lager
Fermentis Saflager S-23

Ferment at 50 degrees. Lager 4 weeks prior to bottling or serving. Carb to 2-2.5 volumes.

I’m going to go ahead and use 2308 for the schwarzbier too. :cheers:

That recipe does look very inviting.

I may have one more round in my wyeast Oktoberfest blend.

I think when I make it, I i’ll probably move the 20 min to a 10 min and use 2oz of Saaz instead of Spalt to bring out the Czechness.

I’ve had quite the run of German lagers, maybe it’s time for some Saaz!!

I made the Dark Tmave limited edition kit of NB 3 years ago and it was mind blowing. Like most, I’d only considered Czech beers as pilsners.

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