Jamil's Vienna

ken_lenard · July 14, 2013, 2:00pm

I made this beer in April and let it lager at 35° for 2 months before bringing it to the taps. My keg of Bordertown Dark Lager went down on Friday and I replaced it with this…

This is one delicious and well-balanced beer. I can’t remember how close I came to using Jamil’s recipe verbatim but it’s either right on or very close. Looks like 4 lbs Vienna (Best Malz), 3 lbs pilsner (Durst Turbo Pils), 3 lbs Munich 10L (Weyermann) and 2 ounces Carafa. 1½ ounces of Hallertau pellets for 60 and ½ oz for 10 or so. 2308 on the yeast. This was the second glass from the keg and check out that clarity. Big ups to Jamil… nice recipe.

brewingdan · July 14, 2013, 3:29pm

Now that you’ve actually gone to Vienna, how does it compare? Any changes you would make?

ken_lenard · July 14, 2013, 4:34pm

Are you ready for this? No Vienna Lager in Vienna. If there is any, I didn’t find it and I didn’t leave many stones unturned. :lol: We were invited to dinner by my daughter’s host family (this was a high school orchestra trip that I turned into a Beercation) and when I asked the host Dad about “Vienna Lager”, he said, “Yes, we have a lot of lager here in Vienna…” and I clarified that I was looking for a style “Vienna Lager” and he didn’t know what I was talking about. The closest I got to Vienna Lager was in Prague at a place called Pivovar U Tri Ruzi and it may have been the best beer of the trip. I posted about that in my trip report thread. Otherwise, Jamil’s is excellent. It’s similar to Negro Modelo (is that an insult? I hope not) but it’s better than that. Dark, rich, creamy, balanced, etc. I wouldn’t change a thing but I might experiment with different yeasts just to see how it could be changed. That said, I love 2308. Cheers.

brewingdan · July 14, 2013, 8:40pm

Are you ready for this? No Vienna Lager in Vienna. If there is any, I didn’t find it and I didn’t leave many stones unturned. :lol: We were invited to dinner by my daughter’s host family (this was a high school orchestra trip that I turned into a Beercation) and when I asked the host Dad about “Vienna Lager”, he said, “Yes, we have a lot of lager here in Vienna…” and I clarified that I was looking for a style “Vienna Lager” and he didn’t know what I was talking about. The closest I got to Vienna Lager was in Prague at a place called Pivovar U Tri Ruzi and it may have been the best beer of the trip. I posted about that in my trip report thread. Otherwise, Jamil’s is excellent. It’s similar to Negro Modelo (is that an insult? I hope not) but it’s better than that. Dark, rich, creamy, balanced, etc. I wouldn’t change a thing but I might experiment with different yeasts just to see how it could be changed. That said, I love 2308. Cheers.[/quote]

I saw your trip pictures, looked AWWWESOME. Everytime my wife and I go to Europe, she limits me to 2 breweries a day. Sooooo I go to whatever local supermarket or bottle shop we are near and stock up on beers that are near to my heart and every single one I haven’t seen before. The look on EVERY check out person’s face is priceless. Rarely do europeans get more than one kind of beer.

I brewed Jamil’s recipe ages ago and it was rather blah to me back then. BUT that was before I better understood yeast pitching rates, oxygenation, and water chemistry. Looking at the recipe, I’m pretty sure it was turn out to be a fine beer nowadays. Maybe as even fine as yours looks!!!

airlocksniffer · July 15, 2013, 3:13am

I recently got to the best of show round in a local comp with this beer. I thought is turned out really good. My only real critique said I should lower the bitterness a bit.

ken_lenard · July 15, 2013, 1:12pm

Yum, that looks nice.

It’s funny that you mention the bitterness because as I go back and see that the recipe was 1.5 oz Hallertau for 60 and .5 oz for 10, I went with 1.25 ounces first and .75 oz later. I also don’t see any AA% in any of the mentions of Jamil’s recipe. My Hallertaus were 4.5% so my total IBUs were 29. I may have concluded that using 1.5 oz of 4.5% hops (6.75 AAU) would’ve been too much. Not sure but it’s a nice beer. I also mentioned to another brewer that the roastiness of the Carafa (I realize some people say there is no roastiness in Carafa but I do pick it up) fades and ends up becoming a part of the overall beer… especially if you give the beer a chance to lager.

airlocksniffer · July 15, 2013, 11:56pm

Yeah, I didn’t think it was too bitter but, you know, judges always have to be judging. :blah:

I brewed mine in mid-December and didn’t tap it until the end of April. Needless to say, a tear was shed when the keg blew 3 weeks later.

EDIT: According to BCS, the IBU’s of the Hallertauer are 4% AA (1.5 oz at 60, 0.5 oz at 10).

brewingdan · July 16, 2013, 1:14am

Speaking of European Beers, I’m looking to brew a Munich Helles next week.

95% Pils, 5% Carafoam, splash of Acidulated Malt.
Total IBU’s around 18 with a 60 min addition and .5oz at 20 minutes.

Double decocted with the main rest around 150F.

Wyeast Oktoberfest blend

Looking at a Softer pale water profile with SO4 around 30, Cl around 39.

Getting pretty excited!!

I’ve got a run of lagers that I can’t wait to taste in a couple months.

ken_lenard · July 16, 2013, 3:04am

[quote=“brewingdan”]Speaking of European Beers, I’m looking to brew a Munich Helles next week.

95% Pils, 5% Carafoam, splash of Acidulated Malt.
Total IBU’s around 18 with a 60 min addition and .5oz at 20 minutes.

Double decocted with the main rest around 150F.

Wyeast Oktoberfest blend

Looking at a Softer pale water profile with SO4 around 30, Cl around 39.

Getting pretty excited!!

I’ve got a run of lagers that I can’t wait to taste in a couple months.[/quote]
After all the Helles I had in Europe, I plan on making one as well. I have 2124 as well as the White Labs platinum Helles strain WLP860. I know that one is getting a little old so it would require a starter on the stirplate, plenty of O2, maybe some nutrient, etc. I also have 830. I need to lower my bicarb so a lot of distilled water would be necessary (probably 75%) and I would add CaCl and no (or very little) sulfate… just my preference. I’d love to make one similar to the ones I had over there. Cheers.

barley_water · July 16, 2013, 9:58pm

I did a Vienna Lager about a month ago. I did an “old school” recipe though, almost 100% Vienna malt a couple of ounces of Carafa II for color and a dash of Melonodin malt if I remember correctly. I also did a double decoction just so I could get those nice malty notes. Initial tasting leaves me optimistic, hopefully it will do ok in the contest I have coming up.

ken_lenard · July 16, 2013, 10:26pm

I have no doubt it will be dynamite. Good luck with the beer and the competition. :cheers:

el_capitan · July 18, 2013, 5:06pm

I’m enjoying a keg of that same beer right now, and I’m very pleased with the results. This was my first lager, and it’s really clean and tasty. I followed the recipe as written.

I used the 2308 for Jamil’s Munich Dunkel too, and that beer is excellent as well. :cheers:

ken_lenard · July 19, 2013, 1:11pm

[quote=“El Capitan”]I’m enjoying a keg of that same beer right now, and I’m very pleased with the results. This was my first lager, and it’s really clean and tasty. I followed the recipe as written.

I used the 2308 for Jamil’s Munich Dunkel too, and that beer is excellent as well. :cheers: [/quote]
Hmm, didn’t see the dunkel recipe. Any chance you could post it? After some REALLY nice dunkels in Prague and Munich, I’d love to make some at home.

bryanh · July 19, 2013, 1:23pm

Hey, Ken. Here’s a dunkel that came out well:

Munich Dunkel
10 Gallons

13.5 lbs German dark Munich malt
3.5 lbs Pilsner malt
.375 lb Carafa II malt
.75 lb CaraFoam malt

Decoction mash; 128F, 148F, 168F mashout

1 oz Spalt + 1 oz Saaz @ 60 minutes
1 oz Spalt @ 20 minutes

Estimated OG 1.050, IBU 24

White Labs WLP-838 Southern German Yeast

:cheers:

blatz · July 19, 2013, 1:50pm

[quote=“BryanH”]Hey, Ken. Here’s a dunkel that came out well:

Munich Dunkel
10 Gallons

13.5 lbs German dark Munich malt
3.5 lbs Pilsner malt
.375 lb Carafa II malt
.75 lb CaraFoam malt

Decoction mash; 128F, 148F, 168F mashout

1 oz Spalt + 1 oz Saaz @ 60 minutes
1 oz Spalt @ 20 minutes

Estimated OG 1.050, IBU 24

White Labs WLP-838 Southern German Yeast

:cheers: [/quote]

hmm - looks good -might have to make that soon, though Tett instead of spalt (don’t have spalt) and 833 yeast. Thanks BryanH!

blatz · July 19, 2013, 1:51pm

[quote=“BryanH”]Hey, Ken. Here’s a dunkel that came out well:

Munich Dunkel
10 Gallons

13.5 lbs German dark Munich malt
3.5 lbs Pilsner malt
.375 lb Carafa II malt
.75 lb CaraFoam malt

Decoction mash; 128F, 148F, 168F mashout

1 oz Spalt + 1 oz Saaz @ 60 minutes
1 oz Spalt @ 20 minutes

Estimated OG 1.050, IBU 24

White Labs WLP-838 Southern German Yeast

:cheers: [/quote]

hmm - looks good -might have to make that soon, though Tett instead of spalt (don’t have spalt) and 833 yeast. Thanks BryanH!

ken_lenard · July 19, 2013, 11:48pm

[quote=“BryanH”]Hey, Ken. Here’s a dunkel that came out well:

Munich Dunkel
10 Gallons

13.5 lbs German dark Munich malt
3.5 lbs Pilsner malt
.375 lb Carafa II malt
.75 lb CaraFoam malt

Decoction mash; 128F, 148F, 168F mashout

1 oz Spalt + 1 oz Saaz @ 60 minutes
1 oz Spalt @ 20 minutes
Estimated OG 1.050, IBU 24

White Labs WLP-838 Southern German Yeast

:cheers: [/quote]
Thanks Amigo. I had a dunkel called “Master” at U Vejvodu and also U Fleku in Prague and they were both really, really nice examples of the style. I would love to make one of these myself. I’d bet I could sub 2308 for the 838 and be all good, right? Cheers and thanks again.

bryanh · July 20, 2013, 3:35am

[quote=“Ken Lenard”]
Thanks Amigo. I had a dunkel called “Master” at U Vejvodu and also U Fleku in Prague and they were both really, really nice examples of the style. I would love to make one of these myself. I’d bet I could sub 2308 for the 838 and be all good, right? Cheers and thanks again.[/quote]

2308? absolutely, that will be fine. This is made to German specs. Unfortunately I have not had one of the Czech dark lagers although I have salivated over them on Tony Bourdain’s Czech TV tour as well as the log of your recent European jaunt. Although I don’t have my own radio show I can assure you this recipe makes a very palatable beer. :cheers:

el_capitan · July 20, 2013, 3:38am

Here’s Jamil’s Dunkel. I have to say, if you don’t own this book, it’s a great one. I’ve brewed a lot of these recipes and they’re all very good.

Old Dark Bear

OG 1.054
FG 1.014
22 IBU
5.3% abv

12.2 lb Munich
6 oz Carafa II

Mash @ 154

1.2 oz Hallertau, 4.0% aa, 60 min
0.5 oz Hallertau, 4.0% aa, 20 min

WLP833 German Bock Lager
WY2308 Munich Lager
Fermentis Saflager S-23

Ferment at 50 degrees. Lager 4 weeks prior to bottling or serving. Carb to 2-2.5 volumes.

I’m going to go ahead and use 2308 for the schwarzbier too. :cheers:

brewingdan · July 20, 2013, 1:38pm

That recipe does look very inviting.

I may have one more round in my wyeast Oktoberfest blend.

I think when I make it, I i’ll probably move the 20 min to a 10 min and use 2oz of Saaz instead of Spalt to bring out the Czechness.

I’ve had quite the run of German lagers, maybe it’s time for some Saaz!!

I made the Dark Tmave limited edition kit of NB 3 years ago and it was mind blowing. Like most, I’d only considered Czech beers as pilsners.