I'm a Biere de Garde newbie

Beer Recipe Design
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Just FYI, but my club made a BDG a few years back that went to 2nd round NHC, and it was made with “Resurrection” yeast from Brewer’s Art in Maryland, which is their house dubbel yeast. According to Farmhouse Ales, a lager yeast is more traditional, but this particular yeast threw off minimal “Belgian” esters/phenolics at the fermentation temp (high 50’s). I still have about 12 of these left, and man are they a delight.

Ken, this is an AMAZING beer style. Check out Garrett Oliver’s Brewmasters Table and his chapter on Biere de Garde. I would say that behind saison, it is one of his favorite styles (and mine), and extremely versatile. Great pick up if you haven’t already read it/bought it.

If you have a good ‘world’ beer store around you, see if you can find Jenlain, which is an example of the ‘ambree’ version of this style. Slight caramel malt and clean like a lager should be, but has some herbal notes and a slight cellared/sherry character. Otherwise clean and malty.

Sans Culottes is another example shipped to the States, but is a ‘blonde’ version and not my favorite. Kind of tastes like a halfway decent patersbier.

Put some of this beer away for at least a year.

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I have checked out your web site several times Ken, and I think you would love Biere de Garde. I have tasted several commercial examples over the years and like saisons, they are often very different. The general style seems to be a medium strong, malty ale with low esters and very clean finish. Any funk usually comes from trichloroanisole, which is some kind of fungus found in corks. It will ruin a wine, but beer drinkers call it cellar character. I kind of like it if it is not too strong. I don’t think there is any way to reproduce this on a home brew level unless you float a commercial French BDG cork in the secondary fermenter or something like that. I cork many of my home brewed Belgian styles, and I have never got that corked character.

I love saisons and have experimented with several yeasts. I have not brewed a BDG, but I can tell you what not to use. Don’t use 3711. It will produce the clove/spice that you do not like. I have also used Wyeast 3726 BDG yeast, and it is also a yeast that is more spicy than clean. I just tried a 3 Monts blond that had a bit of this character, but I have read that this is Fantome yeast, and that is not a beer you would like if you don’t like saison.

I think you could experiment a bit with what you usually make. If you brew a Helles, Vienna or Octoberfest, ferment some of it with 2206 at 60 degrees. You could also pitch WY 1007 into a couple of gallons of the previously mentioned worts. Add a half pound or so of sugar to boost the gravity a bit. Bottle it, and lager it for a month or so. If you like the character of the beer, you could do a full 5 gallon batch with a yeast profile that you like and use the Strisselspalt hops that you purchased. The hops are not usually a big component of the beer though. It is more about the malt and cellar character.

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I guess I’m the odd duck. I fermented on the cool side and I taste no clove or spice from 3711. I’m outvoted here. I wouldn’t have and perhaps shouldn’t have recommended it as I you’ve made your tastes pretty clear. I had some last night and was searching for clove and spice and couldn’t find it. Odd. Based on the posts, I’d steer clear of it. Perhaps I’ll try smelling some cloves and then sipping to see if I can pick it up then.

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In my mind, here’s the bigger problem with saison (“farmhouse”) yeasts in this (farmhouse) style: attenuation. I made one of the Biere de Mars recipes out of Farmhouse Ales last march, and it is so damned dry, that it is a touch harsh, even though I fermented at 62*. I think its probably because the beast I used in it (3711) took it down to single digits of OG. I still have a case and half of the stuff in the basement, hoping it will age out.

Don’t get me wrong, you want to mash low and create a fermentable wort, but a euro lager yeast, maybe even a altbier yeast would be a better choice for this as it won’t thin out the body by blazing through nearly everything in the beer (which 3711 will do).

It could also be the carb level on this is spritzy, like a saison, which is wrong. You probably want closer to 1.75-2 volumes of CO2 and I’m probably in the 2.3-5 range.

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Guys: Thanks again for the help. My local brewing bud suggested 3711 as well but it really comes down to tastebuds and it’s so funny how some people claim it’s clean and others say to steer clear of it. Fermentation temp could definitely come into play. I have a bunch of other beer projects at the moment so I am going to order the WLP072 in May and then refine my recipe. I plan to get it dry yet malty as the guidelines suggest. I will still use Brewers Gold for the bittering and then some amount of the Strisselspalt later in the boil. I know this is not supposed to feature a lot of hop presence but I might still give it a little boost of hops. I will also carb it a little lighter as mentioned. I’m not going to worry about that ‘farmhouse’ or ‘cellared’ character because I’m not sure how I would achieve it and I don’t even know if I would like it. The idea of buying a commercial BdG and using the cork in the secondary is intriguing but I probably won’t look into it. Thanks again gang.

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So it’s almost June - any updates?

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[quote=“Ken Lenard”][quote=“sl8w”]I’m a little late to this discussion, but I’ll add my comments anyway.

I agree with Shadetree and others who say that saison and belgian yeasts are not appropriate in a BDG. Well, “appropriate” may not be the right word. Let’s just say that, in my opinion, BDGs should be made with other yeasts. Like 1007, as was suggested earlier, or maybe even WL515 Antwerp Ale. Or WL072, which I have never used but which I understand doesn’t have much of the belgiany or saisony characteristics. Or even a warm fermented lager yeast. I don’t know if they still do, but this host used to sell a BDG kit with the Wyeast 2112 Cali lager yeast.

Linguistically, “guarde” means to age or put away (or something like that). I don’t know how true this actually is, but I like to think that back in the olden days a BDG was a malty-ish beer, made with french ingredients (grains, hops, etc.) that was put in the cellar like a french wine so that it took on a cellaring, aged terroir. I think that this is probably the most defining characteristic of the style, but also the hardest to duplicate in a homebrew.

I’ve tried several attempts at making a BDG. I’ve done the Northern Brewer kit with 2112. I’ve tried my own recipes with 1007, and with warm fermented lager yeast (IIRC, 2124 at about 58F). And yes, even though I say it isn’t appropriate, I’ll admit that I’ve even tried it with saison yeast. I liked the saison versions the least. I didn’t enter every single BDG in competition, but I will also admit that my highest scoring BDG was actually one where I blended about 80% Dunkel and 20% saison, then entered it as a BDG. I didn’t set out to brew a BDG that time, but the blend seemed to work as a BDG so I entered it to see what judge’s comments I would get.

Hope this helps.[/quote]
Good stuff there, thank you. This beer is still on my radar and the recipe I put together has been printed out and is sitting about 2 feet from me right now. I wanted there to be a good amount of information to sift through before I made a decision so I appreciate any and all responses in this thread. My current strategy is to wait until WLP072 is released and use that because it seems like the yeast that will work the best in this style for me. When I was a new(er) brewer, I used any and all yeasts without regard for my tastebuds and I made a lot of beer that I did not think was good… mostly because of the choice of yeast. I kept good notes on what yeast strains I like and which ones I do not and I admit that my brewing (and the yeasts I choose) has been in sort of a box because I stick with what I like. I use a lot of 1056, 1272, 1764, 1028, 1099, 1968 for ales and I have my stable of lager yeasts which I know well. But this is one reason I wanted to make this beer and get outside my box a little bit. But… I don’t want to get so far outside my box that it results in pouring 5 gallons down the drain. I have this WLP011 Euro ale yeast now but so many brewers have winced and made a face when I mention it… I don’t think I want to risk it. I was talking to one brewing buddy recently and when I mentioned WLP011, he gave me something like this…
:lol: [/quote]

Bad news for me. But then again some people love the “Belgiany flavors” that I can’t choke own let alone enjoy. I have a vial of wlp011 I planned on using for my next beer. Did they say anything particular about it? I read good things and it seemed to fit based on descriptions of what I wanted.

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Why anyone would belittle WLP011 European ale yeast is beyond me. It makes a squeaky clean alt with an accent on the malt. Very little ester production.

I have brewed a couple of biere de gardes, and find the style a bit dull. Think “Imperial Amber”. Snore. Brew a wee heavy or a bock,they are similar and taste better.

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Did you manage to get your hands on a bottle of Rochefort 6 or 8?

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[quote=“chumley”]Why anyone would belittle WLP011 European ale yeast is beyond me. It makes a squeaky clean alt with an accent on the malt. Very little ester production.
[/quote]
I have to agree with this. WLP011 is my go to clean ale yeast. Delicious and well behaved, finishing quick and dropping clear fast. It will get mildly, pleasantly fruity if pitched in the mid-to high 60’s, but is very clean below that. It is a moderate attenuater, so you need to plan for that if you want the beer to finish dry, mashing low and ramping the temperature up late in the fermentation to keep the yeast active.

It tends to accentuate malt flavors and mute hop flavors a bit, which is probably why it’s not very popular with brewers who focus on IPAs. However, it is a very nice yeast for many European styles, especially Alt, Brown, Porter and Mild.

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This makes me think that they’ve never tried it or just made a bad beer and happened to use this yeast. I can see an IPA brewer not favoring this yeast, due to it’s malt-forward character, but it is hard for me to imagine someone actively disliking the flavor of this yeast. I suppose, if they didn’t like the taste of malt…

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Update: This thread inspired me to brew two Biere de Gardes in May. I used the exact same recipe, one with a lager yeast at 58F, the other with WL072 at 62F. I have them both in the keg now, and I plan to let them “garde” for a couple more months. But the samples tasted nice and I can’t wait to do a side by side when they are done. This is my first time using WL072 but so far it seems like a good fit for this style.

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Gentlemen: I was distracted by many things over the past few months so I never ordered the WLP072 I was going to use. Lots of home projects that I had to either do or oversee and I also had a stretch of beers that I made with the WLP090 San Diego Superyeast (4 beers total, all 5-gal batches) and those beers had some sort of funky off-flavor that reminded me of a Belgian (sorry Belgian fans) and I had to dump all 4 beers. Ugh. So I have been trying to catch up from that as well and I didn’t see it as a time to experiment. Sl8w, I would like to hear about the BdG that you made with the WLP072. I could always try to find it… some supplier still might have it. Cheers.

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Thought I would add Ken an alternative and I suppose it’s just my personal choice is WLP 029 over WlP 011. I use it at 67 deg. on my Alts, Kolchs, and a Blonde and I like the way it works it’s way thru the wort. Very clean. I’ve also heard good things about S.D. Super but not used it yet. I know you are staying clear of Belgians but WLP 515
was very subtle on the “B” flavors but still had that background some.

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I’ve been “garding” these beers since May and just recently hooked them up to serve. I’m impressed with WL072 and would recommend it for this style. Comparing the two, the WL072 version had a great yeast aroma that gave hints of being french/belgian, but the flavor profile was clean and ale-like. Maybe something like an Alt, but without the mineral profile that I get from 1007, or something along the lines of a belgian pale like DeKonnick or Palm. In contrast, the beer made with warm fermented lager yeast was fruiter in flavor but had much less yeast aroma. I also made a california common with this warm fermented lager yeast, and I think it worked well for both styles. That being said, if I drink any more than a pint of either of the lager yeast beers, I get a nasty headache the next day. For that reason, I’ve preferred the WL072 version of the bier de garde. But both are good and in line with what I was hoping to achieve.