Hops/Glycocides/Yeast with Beta-Glucosidase

OK, here’s the thread. I’m thinking those that want to participate can brew a simple beer in different locations and tweak different variables. Maybe we could even get a mail bottle-trade thing going!

Bottle trade would be awesome! I’m thinking a simple pale ale, and playing with various yeasts, hops, and hop timings.

The few yeasts/combos I’ve tried were:
WLP644 + citra, brought out huge orange/grapefruit.
TYB Lochristi blend + citra, again huge orange and citrus.
TYB Lochristi blend + centennial, pineapple bomb.

I pm’ed Chop and explained that I’m working on another aspect of all this. Then I’m gearing up to brew 4-5 lagers this fall/winter to assist my temp controlled conicals. Then, that damn Chop has me thinking kettle soured beer next. I will gladly participate if I ever get around to it!

By then, I’ll still be enjoying the last few bottles of my 644/citra pale, 3 months old as of now, without any loss of hop aroma! I’ve never made it past about 3 weeks in the bottle with a clean yeast without noticing a big drop in the hop aroma.

I made a pretty amazing (IIDSSM) Galaxy Saison with Sacc Trois. Do you make any grist adjustments (like more caramel malts/dextrinous malts) when brewing a really hop forward beer with it?

I haven’t, but I think I probably want to start doing that. I really like dry beers, especially saison plus brett, but the last ones I’ve heavily dry hopped tend to want to suck all the moisture out of your mouth. I think some more body might help? Have a couple pounds of golden naked oats waiting to try. I have a rye saison with brett on deck, maybe I should try a big dry hop with that one. I take that back, I DEFINITELY should. :mrgreen:

I haven’t gotten around to using 644. At what temps are you guys using it?

I pitched a lager-sized pitch at 68*, held there for 4 days, then fermented another 7 at 72. Turned out a great beer. Saving the last 750ml of the beer for a thai takeout night!

Any chance you can share the recipe for this? I’m looking to try something a little more funky for one of my upcoming brews just to mix it up and this sounds right up my alley.

I sure could, but I soured it with lacto as well… would you still be interested? As more of a straight-up IPA, I’ve been tempted to try it with a 2HA-type wort, either as-is or subbed for Citra of Galaxy. But I haven’t found the time yet. WLP644 stays in suspension for pretty much forever, so it’s a great candidate for dry hopping with active yeast.

Hmm that might be a little too far outside of the norm for me :slight_smile: . What I was really looking for was something probably closer to a traditional IPA to use WLP644 with. Any suggestions?

I would think any tropical-fruit forward IPA recipe would be perfect for this yeast. I’ve gotten fairly high attenuation out of it with lots of tropical esters, so expect it to finish like 1.008-1.010. You might want to do something to keep it from drying out too much, maybe some Munich in the mix, or maybe even some flaked grains, or bump up mash temperature? This is why I was going for a 2HA-type beer with it for a more traditional IPA, but just haven’t made it that far yet. So take this all with an appropriately sized grain of salt. :lol:

I don’t want to stray too far from the OP topic but this will definitely something I’ll have to start kicking around in the back of my head. Thanks for the inspiration! I probably won’t have a chance to even brew this for another couple months but I’ll let you know how it turns out.

Hmm that might be a little too far outside of the norm for me :slight_smile: . What I was really looking for was something probably closer to a traditional IPA to use WLP644 with. Any suggestions?[/quote]

This yeast should make a great hop-forward beer.

I would start with a simple(ish) wort of

90% 2-row or pearl
5% oats
5% wheat or spelt

25% of total IBU from bittering hop
big flameout/whirlpool/dry hop additions
any combination that has worked well for you before in other IPAs
This yeast will not produce a ton of acid, and as the brewing world found out about a year or so back, is not actually a brett but a sacc yeast.

Should I worry about “bugs” in my plastic? I’ve never messed with anything other than standard yeasts so not sure if this is something I need to worry about or if a good oxyclean then starsan soak will take care of it.

I would not if you are just using 644. Remember, its just a yeast (as is Brettanomyces). If there are scratches in the plastic, it can live in those and is a bit ‘heartier’ than other yeasts, but a soak in /mechanical clean with PBW/Oxy then starsan will kill 644.

^^^ What Pietro said. When you get your vial, you’ll notice the name change to something like “saccharomyces brux-like trois.” It is indeed a strain of saccharomyces and proof that White Labs has a sense of humor. It’s like when people warn you not to rehydrate your yeast in water over 110F or so, because it kills the yeast. A good hot soak with PBW followed with Star-San will kill it.

And I think this is exactly the point of the thread - to explore interactions of hops and yeasts. Splitting the batch between 644 and something like Chico would be really interesting.

Got 644 in coming in mail as we speak. Already got some ideas in my mind about hop combos. I think I will throw a little light Munich in so the FG doesn’t fall too low.

Won’t a yeast like this chew through everything in the munich (or for that matter, oats, spelt, etc.) anyway? My understanding is that is the maltriose that some of the brit ale yeasts can’t metabolize that gives beers fermented with those the higher FG.

From my understanding, Munich malt isn’t as fermentable as Pilsner/2 row. Here’s an excerpt from Brau Kaiser:
grain bill composition (base malt): mashes rich in enzymes, i.e. high diastatic power, (Pilsner malt, Pale malt) will produce more fermentable worts since they contain a lager amount of beta-amylase and limit dextrinase which can produce more maltose than mashes with lower diastatic power (Munich malt or large amounts of unmalted grains) assuming the same saccharification rest temperature.

Sure crystal or roast malts would provide more non-fermentables but I’m not sure I would want to go there… But now that I’m thinking about that…