IPA on deck for tomorrow. I was happy with my previous experience with an 8 oz hopstand with a 30 IBU bittering addition. Might be more bitter upfront with less flavor and aroma than I expected…
Think I will finally commit and do only a hopstand on this one. I will either go all centennial or do a kitchen sink blend of dank and nobles. For specs, I think something like 1.075, 90% pale and 10% light crystal, and give it 8-12oz hops with a 60-80 minute hopstand (need to run promash to estimate IBU’s) No dryhop.
Any naysayers??? Other thoughts? Sarcasm and insults encouraged…
Sounds interesting. I remember the thread on hop stands, but refresh my memory. What does it accomplish that you cant get with a standard schedule?
If I were doing it, I go with all centennial rather than a bunch of varieties. This allows you to pick up what actually happened with the hop character.
Look forward to hearing the results, with the only hops coming in the hop stand you’ll have a great read on what exactly they are adding to the beer. Looking forward to hearing your results. Been really happy with my Pale Ales were I’ve been using a hopstand, still working out exactly how much bitterness I get out of it so that I can adjust the bittering addition (if any accordingly).
Does Promash calculate IBUs from a hopstand? If so, does it specify a temp range? Or are you just assuming that the hops contribute the equivalent of a 5-min addition (or something similar)?
I don’t think you’ll get enough bite for an IPA with a hopstand but I’m certainly curious about your results!
To me, the hop stand adds more mojo (very scientific) that otherwise cannot be achieved with large hop finishing schedule. I believe many of the volatile compounds which are driven off by boiling are instead captured in the wort from the lid remaining on for an extended period. Truth be told, I think the technique is similar to FWH and still somewhat of a mythical beast not entirely understood. It works for me and I think it resembles the whirlpool technique used at the commercial level.
All centennial it is. Don’t mind that one bit as it is my favorite hop. I should be able to really pinpoint what is happening.
Shadetree, no, promash does not have a hopstand addition but I do think the hopstand adds IBU’s equivalent to a 5-15 minute addition. I definitely can vouch that a hopstand adds more bitterness that you might suspect (especially if you use enough hops), which is why I am gonna try a solo hopstand this time. Might not be the same bracing bitterness as a heavy handed Stone IPA, but that’s cool with me. I am really going for intense hop flavor, with bitterness and aroma being less dominant.
I was one of the early experimenters with the hopstand, so have a fair amount of experience with the technique. I recently added a whirlpool when I upgraded my kettle, so I’ve been doing some “real” whirlpool additions (no temp drop, just running the re-circ for a while before starting the chilling) for comparison. While both definitely add bitterness, it’s not up to FWH levels (to my tastebuds) and I don’t think you can make an IPA with FWH only, so a hopstand (or whirlpool) only IPA is a challenge.
It’d be nice to be able to measure the IBU’s added by a whirlpool/hopstand but I’ve been experimenting my with hop stands on my Pale Ale’s (rarely brew IPA’s). I know the late add has to be adding a fair bit of bitterness since I’ve only been bittering to ~10-15 IBUs and then doing a hop stand with a few ounces of hops and with my palette is far from scientific I’m think my beers are coming out somewhere around 30-ish IBU’s (just comparing to commercial beers with know IBU values).
I think I’ll take your lead and try my Pale with all hop stand hops to see how it turns out.
Decided to use a 10 minute addition for estimating IBU’s in promash. To me, the hopstand has more bitterness than a 5 minute addition but less than 15. Truthfully it might be actually closer to the 15 minute addition in my opinion.
Haven’t completely decided but I am aiming for 75-100 IBUs. With my Cents at 8.7% AA @ 10 minute addition I need 8.75-11.25 ounces. Likely with throw in 10 ounces and be done with it.
Interesting to note that the IBU’s can be radically different when using different hop utilization options in promash due to using such a large addition at a short times. I am using Tinseth 1.0 conversion factor. I’d be getting 0 IBUs if I were using the Garetz setting!
Will be an exciting brew day… Brewing in garage with 93F temps and thunderstorms predicted.
Estimating as a 10-min addition sounds about right, and doing the hopstand with no other additions might help to better nail down the correct time. With that load of hops, you’ll certainly have plenty of aroma and flavor!
Twas so hot and muggy I could barely get water to evaporate from the boil. Although my gravity is a bit lower due to the lack of evaporation I did manage to do a 60 minute hop stand with 10 oz of centennial. Probably technically more like 90 minutes since it took nearly 30 minutes to cool. I can’t even begin to describe how good the tiny little aroma that was coming from the edge of the lid during the stand. Hydro sample was definitely bitter but not overly so. More to follow…
Ended up doing an unplanned brew last Friday. Was brewing with a buddy so we did a 10 gallon batch and we needed a Pale Ale so I tried a hop stand only. :cheers: Just 4 oz of hops added at flame out and a 1 hr stand. Going to have to look back to see which hops I grabbed but I used 2oz each of 2 different high AA hops. Tasted the wort going in to the fermenters and it seemed plenty bitter. It is just a 4.6% ABV Pale Ale using a simple grain bill I’ve done many times before and I didn’t want to overshoot the bitterness. I’ve got 2 carboys of it so I might try dry hopping just one of them so I can do a direct comparison, should I like the dry hopped one way better I’ll just dry hop the other in the keg.
Along the same lines, I did a quickie 5-gal IIPA last Friday and used two oz of Columbus for FWH. Took a pH sample just before it started to boil and took a taste of the wort - I’d put it at about 25 IBUs, but no bite at all, just smoothly bitter on the tongue.
Brew is progressing well. Looks to be at high krausen now. For all you air lock sniffers out there reading this thread, there is no doubt in my mind that this beer is giving off the single most powerful hop aroma to date. Noticed this on the last hopstand beer too. Dare I say the aroma is less elegant but more forward if that makes sense.
Nice to see some more volunteers for the “study”. Flip, your brew should be great for comparing the impact of dry hopping with the hopstand. Can’t recall where I read it but IIRC a dry hop apparently intensifies the effects of a hopstand. Not dry hopping mine…
Shadetree, you like living dangerously? 2 oz of Columbus!? FWH or not, Columbus is a wicked bitter hop to me. Dank, yes, but too course and lingering. It IS killer as a dry hop though. I really like the aroma and hope I can use them somehow without extracting too much bite. Will be very interested in you FWH results. Thanks for posting! Hope to try some CTZ in a hopstand someday.
[quote=“zwiller”]Shadetree, you like living dangerously? 2 oz of Columbus!? FWH or not, Columbus is a wicked bitter hop to me. Dank, yes, but too course and lingering. It IS killer as a dry hop though.[/quote]Two oz Columbus FWH, one oz boil, two oz at flameout, and two oz of Citra at 5-minutes, plus 2 oz of each for DH. OG of 1.080, IBUs around 120 depending on how you calc the FWH. I like a serious, lingering, dank hoppy character in IPAs and IIPAs and Columbus brings the dank for sure.
^That is a medicinally bitter. Perhaps it’s the german in me but I prefer low cohumulone in my bittering charge, namely magnum. Bitter but fades quick and let’s the hop flavor dance on the tongue. Yin and yang. Totally get where you’re at on the hopstand. I agree, no way to get THAT bite from a hopstand!
Kristen England mentioned it after a NHC talk by Ray Daniels. http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=76188
Seems hop stand only is kind of taking that experiment to the extreme by not having a bittering addition which I’m inferring was used in Ray’s experiments. From the date on his post I’d assume it was presented at the 2009 NHC, if you’re an AHA member you can check out the presentations from past NHC’s. http://www.ahaconference.org/presentations/2009-presentations/
Going to read through the presentations I think Kristen was referring to some time soon. :idea:
Think I’m going to give the beer a taste before I dry hop either carboy. Kind of took a flier on hops I selected, Summit and Pacific Jade. Not a clue how those will go together but one way to find out… :cheers:
Kegged my Hop Stand Pale yesterday but quick carbed a sample to get an early sample. It’ll be easier to tell once it has some time to condition and clear but I was pleased. Not sure why but it seems so weird that I got plenty of bitterness from nothing but a hop stand. The hop flavor really seems to stand out and I’m pleased with how it turned out. I’ll let it condition all the way before I make any final judgements but I think a hop stand with some dry hop may be my method of choice for a hoppy beer. Sure it requires a bit more hops to get the bitterness required but it also seems to retain a lot more hop flavor.
Finally kicked my keg. Turned out pretty dang good. Definitely a technique I will use again. Anyone who doubts that a hop stand will add bitterness is wrong. This beer was actually too bitter. I always wondered about the 70 minute stand and isomerization and it no doubt had an impact with this beer. I bet a 70 minute stand equals a 30 minute addition rather than a 10-15 addition. I wanted less bitterness and more flavor.
Next IPA is my beer on deck Thur and will be 30 minute hopstand/steep with 8oz (featuring galaxy) but will have a 25 IBU low coho bittering addition. Also contemplating backing the gypsum down to about 100-150ppm sulfate instead of 300ppm in an effort to really pop the fruity hop constituents.
Experienced the same thing with the hop stand, a bit too much bitterness. I did use two high alpha hops at a fairly high rate but it did help me ‘range find’, know to use less next time. My best results have been with a pale ale I bittered to ~15 ibu (not counting the contribution from the stand) then did a moderate hop stand and then also dry hopped. The recipe kind of follows Firestone Walker’s Mission Street Pale recipe from CYBI only to replace their whirlpool I did a hop stand.
