When using gelatine, I’ve read that cold crashing first, improves clarity when compared to adding the gelatine at say 64 F. Is there much of a difference ?
I understand that chill haze becomes visable at cold temps, but the protein material is still there regardless of the actual temp. So I’m wondering what cold crashing might do to enhance the protein/material in dropping out. Cheers.
Paul.
Good resources here:
http://homebrew.stackexchange.com/quest ... chill-hazeNot sure about why the beer being cold helps the gel to bind to the proteins (to your point, they are ‘in’ there either way). Maybe since the proteins are clumped together, there are fewer molecules for the gelatin to bind to, and you don’t need as much gelatin?
[quote=“cold…az”]When using gelatine, I’ve read that cold crashing first, improves clarity when compared to adding the gelatine at say 64 F. Is there much of a difference ?
I understand that chill haze becomes visable at cold temps, but the protein material is still there regardless of the actual temp. So I’m wondering what cold crashing might do to enhance the protein/material in dropping out. Cheers.
Paul.[/quote]
Yes, it makes a difference. While the material that causes chill haze is obviously already in the beer it needs the cold temperatures to make it come together tightly enough to produce the visible haze. These larger accumulations are more easily captured and precipitated by the gelatin.
Agree with the others that the coldness is critical to the reaction. That said, I get good clear beer (like 8/9 out of 10) with just a half tab of whirlfloc. Whirlfloc is far better than IM or even supermoss. Of course, my pH is dialed in and would investigate that first if you have reoccurring issues with clarity. Side benefit is improved taste!
In the event I am going for an absolutely clear filtered look, I cold crash for a few days (fridge set @ 30F) and rack off yeast. Prepare gelatine properly (many do not) and add, gently agitate, and chill for a few more days.
There are multiple descriptions about how to prepare gelatin. What method are you referring to? Myself, I have been letting the dry powder bloom in room temp water. Then I put it in the microwave at 15 sec intervals, checking and stirring in between each, and going just until it is all disoved.
That’s pretty close to mine. Only difference is that I use a small sauce pan and heat stirring to 160F. The blooming is the key I think. Been years since I did it though. Seriously, whirlfoc is killer.
IPA @ 2 weeks. Slight haze is from a 4oz dry hop.
Does mash pH impact beer clarity? I just started drinking my first batch where I adjusted pH, and even at about 10 days bottle conditioning it’s shockingly clear. I’ll try to get a picture tonight- gives me a good excuse to crack one open!
Proper mash pH, good hot break, rolling boil, irish moss ( which imho is as good as whirlfloc but to each his or her own), and fast cold break and cold crash if I’m going to bottle get me very clear beers.
I have an aversion to gelatin. I’ve seen where pigs and cattle walk and I don’t want their feet in my beer. :lol:
:cheers:
pH affects all aspects of the brewing process, including clarity. You should be concerned with not only mash pH but preboil as well. This usually means acidifying sparge liquor or using very low alkalinity water to sparge.
I am not vegan nor easily offended by homebrewing odors but heating gelatine to 160F is vile. I am kinda averse to it too. Danny, check out biofine. I read many good things about it.
[quote=“zwiller”] Of course, my pH is dialed in and would investigate that first if you have reoccurring issues with clarity. Side benefit is improved taste!
[/quote]pH is something I looked into a couple of years ago and decided to put this aspect of my brewing into the too hard basket. Instead, I purchased a domestic water distiller and now when brewing pale lagers I simply opt to use distilled water with a 1/2 teaspoon of CaCl in the mash. Of course I also employ other fundementals for clarity such as good rolling boil, irish moss, good cold break and now I’ve started using gelatine.
re pH: are there a few guidelines you can recommend for basic overall control of mash and sparge pH that does not involve a lot of know-how? I’m not averse to geekness however, if it doesn’t involve expense.
Your overall approach is good (distilled for pale lagers). Dare I say adding 3-4% acid malt might be all that is needed to take it to the next level. I would download and learn Bru’n water (BNW) for more info.
[quote=“zwiller”]That’s pretty close to mine. Only difference is that I use a small sauce pan and heat stirring to 160F. The blooming is the key I think. Been years since I did it though. Seriously, whirlfoc is killer.
IPA @ 2 weeks. Slight haze is from a 4oz dry hop.[/quote]
Beautiful IPA.
I used to do the gelatine addition before chilling the beer, but when I started chilling it first and then adding gelatin, the difference was huge.
Even my hoppiest, most aromatic dry hopped beers turn out star bright.
Also, for whatever it’s worth, I boil the h2o/gelatin mixture to more or less sterilize it, and (primarily) to de-oxegenate the water. No worries at all about boiling the gelatin…that’s how gelatin is made in the first place.
[quote=“The Professor”]
Also, for whatever it’s worth, I boil the h2o/gelatin mixture to more or less sterilize it, and (primarily) to de-oxegenate the water. No worries at all about boiling the gelatin…that’s how gelatin is made in the first place.[/quote]
Wow, so you add the gelatin to the room temp water, let it bloom, then boil? I’ve heard this is exactly what you aren’t supposed to do. Though I must say, I’ve added gelatin to a few brews lately and it didn’t seem to do much.
[quote=“Pietro”][quote=“The Professor”]
Also, for whatever it’s worth, I boil the h2o/gelatin mixture to more or less sterilize it, and (primarily) to de-oxegenate the water. No worries at all about boiling the gelatin…that’s how gelatin is made in the first place.[/quote]
Wow, so you add the gelatin to the room temp water, let it bloom, then boil? I’ve heard this is exactly what you aren’t supposed to do. Though I must say, I’ve added gelatin to a few brews lately and it didn’t seem to do much.[/quote]
I’ve heard that too. But since no one has ever explained why you’re not supposed to do it, it’s still my S.O.P…
Basically, I’ve always handled the gelatin that way since I began using it (at least 28 or so years ago) and it has never affected it’s efficacy.
My house yeasts, as well as the commercial one I’m currently using pretty frequently lately, are both very flocculent on their own and the gelatin is an aid I’ll use just to move things along; but even with the dustiest yeast strains I’ve alternatively used over the years, the gelatin always worked like a charm (and plenty fast when I needed it to), even after boiling.
:cheers:
[quote=“Pietro”][quote=“The Professor”]
Also, for whatever it’s worth, I boil the h2o/gelatin mixture to more or less sterilize it, and (primarily) to de-oxegenate the water. No worries at all about boiling the gelatin…that’s how gelatin is made in the first place.[/quote]
Wow, so you add the gelatin to the room temp water, let it bloom, then boil? I’ve heard this is exactly what you aren’t supposed to do. Though I must say, I’ve added gelatin to a few brews lately and it didn’t seem to do much.[/quote]
I’m not on board with the boiling part (I heat mine to pasteurization temp) but blooming gelatin in cold water first is exactly what you’re supposed to do. Letting it bloom is a hydrating stage for the gelatin which lets the little bits of gelatin relax and extend themselves in solution. This prevents clumping and helps it get the job done better.
[quote=“BryanH”][quote=“The Professor”]
Also, for whatever it’s worth, I boil the h2o/gelatin mixture to more or less sterilize it, and (primarily) to de-oxegenate the water. No worries at all about boiling the gelatin…that’s how gelatin is made in the first place.[/quote]
I’m not on board with the boiling part (I heat mine to pasteurization temp) but blooming gelatin in cold water first is exactly what you’re supposed to do. Letting it bloom is a hydrating stage for the gelatin which lets the little bits of gelatin relax and extend themselves in solution. This prevents clumping and helps it get the job done better.[/quote]
Point taken.
I shared my own particular method only because it has worked without issues for me since the 1980s, and honestly, has never presented any problems with clumping or performance.
Bottom line is: “whatever works”, I guess.
That said, I’m certainly not adverse to trying it the way you described, and may do so with the next batch or two.
As they used to say on TV, “film at eleven…”
:cheers:
