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D2 Dark Syrup in a Saison?

I am planning on a Saison brew tomorrow and I have 1 lb of dark syrup. I am not sure if the flavor would be too strong for a Saison. I could also use table sugar or honey that I have.

Opinions?

EDIT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

This is what I ended up doing

10 GALLONS

18 lb pils
2.25 munich
1 lb white wheat
1.75 lb white sugar
1 oz bitter orange peel

3 oz Sonnet Golding for bittering
2 oz Saaz for flavor
28.3 IBU total

OG 1.064 @75%

Whit labs Saison II

I don’t think I’d use D2 in a saison.

If you’re set on using sugar, just use sugar.

Yeah I was thinking it would be too strong. Thanks

sugar it is

Besides that I am thinking the recipe looks solid enough

I would question the fermentability of the D2 in something like this.
I believe they tag regular D as “highly fermentable” but not the D2.
Along with all that flavor comes alot of caramelized unfermentable sugars that would keep things from drying out like I assume you’d want it to.
If it was mine I’d get the white sugar up to 15%, 20% even better.
Drop the munich, add more wheat if I had it.
20% sugar will easily get 90% attenuation so I’d back off the OG or up the IBU for an extended “mellowing”.

[quote=“Scott Miller”]I would question the fermentability of the D2 in something like this.
I believe they tag regular D as “highly fermentable” but not the D2.
Along with all that flavor comes alot of caramelized unfermentable sugars that would keep things from drying out like I assume you’d want it to.
If it was mine I’d get the white sugar up to 15%, 20% even better.
Drop the munich, add more wheat if I had it.
20% sugar will easily get 90% attenuation so I’d back off the OG or up the IBU for an extended “mellowing”.[/quote]

FWIW, I’ve used the D2 a lot and found it to be highly fermentable. I’/d say close to 100%. I still wouldn’t use it for this beer.

I’ll just go with 2 lbs of table sugar,I really don’t want to use more than that. it comes in at 8.6% that should dry it out enough. Most of the research I have found says mash it low and don’t go over 10% sugar, although I have seen a few recipes with more than 10%.

I would drop the sugar and spice (orange peel.) This yeast does not need either to finish dry and fruity. Just don’t be afraid to ferment warm. I also think you could add a bit more bitterness. I like 30 if you are going to send it to competition, but 40 for personal drinking. Saaz are good, but Styrian Goldings will also give you a nice citrus character.

I like the Munich in your recipe, I’d keep that part.

I can’t take the munich out anyway,I cracked the entire batch at the shop.I have never used this yeast before,but it does say if finishes fruity and fast.I am going to keep the orange peel and sugar (maybe scale it back to 1 lb of sugar + 1/2 oz of orange in 10 gallons will not be that strong) I plan on fermenting @ 75-80 I took the bittering advice and upped the IBU TO 28

Well I decided to be a rebel.
It will not fall under a Saison technically that does not concern me.

Dark Saison

Type: All Grain
Date: 9/28/2012
Batch Size: 10.00 gal
Brewer: Jason Flair
Boil Size: 12.55 gal
Boil Time: 60 min

Amount Item Type % or IBU
9.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Canada (3.0 SRM) Grain 36.73 %
7.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (3.0 SRM) Grain 28.57 %
3.00 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 12.24 %
2.00 lb White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 8.16 %
1.50 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 6.12 %
3.00 oz Delta [5.50 %] (60 min) Hops 26.8 IBU
2.50 oz Goldings , Sonnett [3.70 %] (15 min) Hops 6.7 IBU
4.0 gm Peppercorns (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1.00 lb Candi Syrup (Dark) (160.0 SRM) Sugar 4.08 %
1.00 lb Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 4.08 %
1 Pkgs Saison II (White Labs #WLP566) Yeast-Ale
2 Pkgs Belgian Specialty (Fermentis #T-58) Yeast-Ale

Bitterness: 33.5 IBU

Est Color: 13.5 SRM

I did a starter with the Saison II yeast, decanted off the starter wort, then divided the yeast between two 5 gallon carboys. I them pitched one pack of T-58 into each carboy.

[quote=“candleman”]I did a starter with the Saison II yeast, decanted off the starter wort, then divided the yeast between two 5 gallon carboys. I them pitched one pack of T-58 into each carboy.[/quote]Did you wait a couple days before pitching the dry yeast or do it all at the same time?

I am about to start cooling the wort right now. I will be pitching it all at the same time. I am just trying to get something unique and I think I got it :slight_smile:

EDIT:
this beer is a very nice red color. I have used recipes for red ales that didn’t come out this red.
If it comes out as nice as I think it will it may be entered in contests as a Belgian Red in the specialty beer category.

Just a suggestion, but why not pitch one fermenter with the liquid and one with the dry? Pitching two yeasts at the same time can be great, but it’s impossible to predict or control which one will dominate, but likely one will and you won’t get the best of both in one beer.

The Saison yeast drys it out, while the T-58 usually finishes high.
I am going for a peppery flavor with a hint of fruitiness.
I like to do yeast experiments and this is just another one in a long line.
I am not sure which one will dominate but the surprise is what I am going for.
If it is really good, I will wash some and use it again.
Since I am splitting the Saison I expect the T-58 to dominate and the Saison will just give me that hint I am looking for.

[quote=“candleman”]The Saison yeast drys it out, while the T-58 usually finishes high.
I am going for a peppery flavor with a hint of fruitiness.
I like to do yeast experiments and this is just another one in a long line.
I am not sure which one will dominate but the surprise is what I am going for.
If it is really good, I will wash some and use it again.
Since I am splitting the Saison I expect the T-58 to dominate and the Saison will just give me that hint I am looking for.[/quote]

I think you may be fooling yourself.

The one thing I’d be worried about is that I always taste a hint of an acrid/burnt flavor in the darkest Candi syrups. I’ve never tasted that character in the finished beer, only the syrup itself, but I’ve never used it in anything light and dry like a saison. It could be that fermentation and/or dilution takes care of that flavor, in which case you should be fine. But I can’t help be a little concerned that the spiciness and dryness of a saison may accentuate that flavor a bit.

Either way, please keep us posted on your results. I’m always looking for a new way to use D-180, so I’d love to hear how this turns out.

[quote=“Denny”][quote=“candleman”]The Saison yeast drys it out, while the T-58 usually finishes high.
I am going for a peppery flavor with a hint of fruitiness.
I like to do yeast experiments and this is just another one in a long line.
I am not sure which one will dominate but the surprise is what I am going for.
If it is really good, I will wash some and use it again.
Since I am splitting the Saison I expect the T-58 to dominate and the Saison will just give me that hint I am looking for.[/quote]

I think you may be fooling yourself.[/quote]

It wouldn’t be the first time

My thinking and meager experience with saison is that its going to have a citrusy character, not sure how a dark fruit/rum raisin would work with that.

I have been told I was crazy before, and had beers that came out excellent.
This one may be a dud. We’ll see.

I get bored making beer to style every time. (This really isn’t a Saison any way)

I think I will call it Teefklap Red and put it under Belgian Specialty Ales

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