I don’t drink alot of them but the article in BYO got me interested again. The temperature affect on certain hops and timing. Calling for a mash hop, 60 hop then a dry hop after 3 days then pull that and do another dry hop after another three days. Also an enzyme addition and a small percentage of wine yeast either an ale yeast. Looked like a complicated schedule I’ll have to right it down and pay attention on brew day. Anyone do a mash addition?
Read a little about mash hopping after you mentioned it earlier. Sounds like it would have a similar impact as FWH but I would assume you’d get zero(?) bittering from it since you’ll toss the hops out with the spent grains?
Sounds like additional effort to create a cloudy beer… I’ll be interested in following the thread but probably not interested in brewing it myself.
What’s the purpose of the enzyme?
Hops according to the article have free and bound thiols which are flavor molecules. The hops with free thiols are best for dry hopping the hops that have alot of bound thiols need the enzyme which some yeasts have wine yeast specifically so they should be added pre fermenter. It’s all about hop utilization which is a big deal for breweries because of the amount of hops they need to use. The bound flavor may even be different than the unbound. Also something about layering hops during whirlpool. Some in at 190 for 10 min then more 170 for 20
I can get juicy NEIPA fairly easily I feel like I cannot ever get the aroma/ dry hop as good as our local breweries. I don’t purge anything with CO2, don’t know if that is a factor.
I often wonder about the AA in hops and why that wouldn’t help to lower the pH of the strike water for mashing… Its a nagging little idea that keeps banging on my brain…
So has biotransformation of the hops been ruled out? I’ll throw this out there… Could you break up/mill your hops as you put them in for dry hopping?
Beersmith had a podcast quite a while ago about hops and utilization. The gentleman claims the aroma is not stable above 170*… Which I took away and now use… Sneezles61
Seems to me it would take a lot of hops to affect pH in your mash. I think they’re in the correct range though.
Pellets are ground and compacted hops. When they get wet they tend to crumble and turn to mush in my experience. I feel like al it would do is create more dust that would get out of the hop cylinder into my keg and with little potential benefit, except for cloudiness if that’s your bag…
All my Whirlpool/Hopstand/Flameout hops now go in after chilling to 170. I agree the aroma is much better and more stable. In the past I complained that post FO hops created good aroma but weren’t stable over a very long time. I feel like that time has been extended in beers since I’ve waited until chilling to 170. It’s a nice layer of aroma to combine wtih DH.
The article explains what compound are in certain hops. Some types need 190 to release others do fine at 170 some are good cold those would be dry hops. I would always add a little of each kind late, whirlpool, and DH. This scientific study says it does matter specific hops for temp range. Hey it’s just one study may be splitting hairs for home brewing. It’s worth a shot I’ll use the hops I have which are some he mentioned. I have to read it again. Seems like citra and Amarillo are not so temperature dependent cascade I think he said is better cold side.
So I haven’t done a NEIPA since around Summer 2017 or so… at that time I was kegging but not yet pushing beer with CO2 from fermenter to purged keg(which I’ve done twice recently) so that would improve the end result I would think. Less oxidation, fresher product. May be time to try another NEIPA…
I did a hamhanded attempt at whirlpooling on rare occasion, but after reading this thread now I am going to try the 170* for my next NEIPA as I would like to get more aroma also…so some of you do both a flameout addition and a dedicated 170* whirlpool/hopstand?.
No more FO… cool a bit is my MO… Sneezles61
Lately I’ve been hopbursting, maybe 3 additions in the last 3-5 mins then the WP hops for 20 minutes at 170. I felt like the FO wasn’t a good use of hops from an aroma/longevity perspective. The late hopburst schedule I feel gives as much aroma as the FO and more flavor. Just my take…
Do you think you get more flavor from the bursting? I would suspect you would lose some aromas through evaporation… maybe… Sneezles61
I did that experiment back in December first keg my flameout then next batch hop burst. Did a test at a Christmas party half swore one half swore the other I couldn’t tell much difference. Of course one was about three weeks older than the other. I’m going with the whirlpool only start at 190 then more at 170. By the way I’m not actually going for the neipa.for that side of the article it said you need to brew a high protein wort and certain hop molecules bind to the protein to get your cloudiness
So after I bail out of lagers this early spring, This may be the great Ale X-beerment to put this to a test… I’m going to write down notes about the hop stand and WP at different temps… Shouldn’t be a problem with the bursting… The FO would be the big perplexing area… Maybe rack into my SS bucket, bag some hops… the other chill down further then WP? I would be a gift to have an IPA remain an IPA for longer than a few weeks…
I wont even deal with the protien component… Sneezles61
So I brew Off The Topper annually with Plinian Legacy and absolutely love it. That’s the beer I started doing the whirlpool chiller hopstand I mentioned in the other post. I tried Fruit Bazooka this summer, which had zero boil hop additions, only flameout hopstand and dry hop. It also called for a dry hop addition on day two of primary fermentation. Here’s a picture of Fruit Bazooka
Here’s a picture of Off the Topper
I really enjoyed Fruit Bazooka too. I should do them side by side and see what differences I can pick out. They were brewed about two months apart.
Some more info. Early hot side hops that are recommended Waimea ,Loral,Citra,Mosaic,Galaxy,Bravo,Galena, and Columbus. For WP additions Brewers Gold, Centennial, Bravo, Citra, Eleanor, Olympic, Simco, Mosaic, and CTZ. Dry hops which according to the article should be added in smaller doses every couple days instead of one big dump can increase utilization by 20% some good ones Motueka, Bravo, Cascade, Chinook, Citra, Mosaic, and Sorachi Ace
Well drinking the NEIPA that I did using the recommended additions and temperatures. This is my Make My Day IPA (reboot) now I did mash hopping then FWH. Nothing else in the boil then layered in two WP hops 1 dose at 190 another at 170. The interesting thing I did with dry hops. Added 1oz on third day of fermentation right into the krausen another on day 5 and another on day 7. On day 10 kegged with more hops and let it sit mid 60° to finish up then carbonated it and drinking it now. I used the 1968 slurry that has not been flocking out. This is a nice beer. I’ve brewed this a few times this came out the best. 90ibu but drinks like 40. Flavor and aroma is great I’m interested to see how long it holds compared to other times I’ve made this
I just did the same and bottled today. No mash hops for me but FWH and WP hops at 170f for 20 minutes. For me it was Voss pitched at 90F. I dry hopped 1 oz every 3 days for 5 oz total. While the end result in not conditioned, the bottling bucket dregs were perfectly juicy and promising.
I think layering the hops during fermentation made a huge difference. The article I read utilization of dry hops is increased by adding less more often than all at once. I guess it makes sense. The beer can only absorb so much before it settles out. The article also states is it absorbs the most in 3 days. I did 3,5,7, and 10. Next batch I’ll do 3’6,9,then keg with hops on day 12 and throw some more on day 15 and put on gas.
Stan Heir(…) was just on beersmith and it was all about hops… I listened but missed some stuff… I’ll need to listen again… Sneezles61
I’ve done it with FWH and Mash water hopping and can’t tell much difference so I’m just doing FWH now. What I have found working quite nicely is 25% wheat malt. Holds the haze and the hops flavor and aroma as well , at least it seams to. I’m brewing my 5th one today. Haven’t been adding anything to the boil this one I’ll add a flameout