Just tapped a “modern fest bier” I did a few months ago and I hate it. I think I got the recipe idea from some thread around here. Grains were pils, munich, cara-hell and acid malt. I did FW hopping for the first time on a lager, and probably the last. I modified the water with gypsum, CaCl, and Mg to give it a profile for pale bitter beer. Nothing fancy with the mash either- 150 for 90 minutes.
Anyway, the beer just plain sucks. Not infected, but not the flavor I wanted at all. Lots of hop flavor which overpowers the malt, but then the malt has this tang to it that I just don’t like. Could that be the sauer malt? I only used 1/4lb for a 5 gallon batch. I’ve never first-wort hopped a lager. Maybe I over-did it.
Used mixture of RO water (66%) and my house water run through carbon filter (33%).
Added gypsum, CaCl and Mg. I use this water on all my pale, bitter beers.
Mashed at 148 for 90 minutes using a RIMS system. Mashout at 168 for 10. Fly sparged at 170 for 45 minutes.
Collect 6.5 gallons of wort. Boiled 60 min to 5.5 gallons.
2.5 oz Tettananger pellets 3.5% AA First wort.
1 oz Hallertauer pellets 3.1% AA at shutoff.
37.6 IBUs
Yeast- Whitelabs 838 Southern German Lager, from a 1000ml starter.
OG- 1.056
FG- 1.019
Fermentation
2 weeks primary at 50 degrees
2 weeks secondary at 50 with cold crash to 36 for last 2 days.
Kegged and refrigerated for 30 days.
I just tried it again and I guess I don’t “hate” it. Has a nice hop nose, but still has a little twang in the malt. Maybe that first (and only) glass I pulled last night had keg dregs in it because this sample just pulled is much more clear.
Not sure why I put in the sauer malt. Never used it before.
FG seems little high too. I oxygenate with pure oxygen and a stone. Pitched a big yeast slurry and had activity within 2 hours.
Any thoughts? Thanks.
If Sauer malt is essentially the same thing as acidulated malt, then you used WAY too much. 2.5 lbs is about 10 times more than I would use.
I think everything else in the recipe looks fairly standard and I would do about the same, except, I would use 2-3 OUNCES of acidulated malt for lowering mash pH in pale beers.
Other thing . . . You said you added Mg??? In what form? Why?
If I am doing a “fest” type beer (oktoberfest, marzen, etc) I use about 2-3 grams CaCl and about half gram of Gypsum. Probably 60-80% RO water. Like I said, maybe a cople ounces of acidulated malt - but maybe not any as there are caramel malts in the mash to help with pH.
Overall, this looks more like something closer to a pilsner type beer than a “fest” beer.
But, yeah, I am thinking the Sauermalt is your culprit. Its purpose is to lower mash pH in very small quantities when using pale malts.
Here is a link to information about sauer malz. At the end, they give a suggested recipe for a Berliner Wiesse - and it calls for 8% Sauer malt. You used 17% sauer malt - So, I would say that you can either try to “turn it into” a very sour Berliner Weisse and give it some time, or you have a dumper on your hands.
I just throw in a few ozs on lighter beers to help control pH. All you got wrong was too much sour. I did that on a beer (brown ale) and it was really awful. Experience is an expensive - but effective teacher
6 weeks after the initial disappointment with this beer, I tried it again and it has matured nicely. I actually like it now. I guess the acid malt twang just needed some time to fade. Yea.
[quote=“pkrone”]Further proof that time heals all wounds…
6 weeks after the initial disappointment with this beer, I tried it again and it has matured nicely. I actually like it now. I guess the acid malt twang just needed some time to fade. Yea.[/quote]
Good to know. That is definitely too much acid malt. I usually throw in anywhere from 4-8 ounces to bring the pH down.
Time. Every brewers enemy. This happened to me a few months ago with a stout. First beer was boring and bland. Tried another one a month later and it was delicious.
Plus one to the notion that time heals all wounds. As absurd as it sounds, every beer I’ve been disappointed with initially has rounded in aging into one of my favorites, except one. And even that beer won it’s category at the Blue Ridge Brew Off last year. This hobby has really tested and rewarded my patience many times.
