And how is this not just a slightly lighter bodied hoppy American Stout. I’ve had too in the past month or so and each time I thought to myself hoppy stout. Big, dark, both were very roasty, hoppy and called Black Ale. Is it just that Black Ale sounds cooler than American Stout or am I missing something here because the description below sounds a lot like what I drank.
BJCP: American Stout
Flavor: Moderate to very high roasted malt flavors, often tasting of coffee, roasted coffee beans, dark or bittersweet chocolate. May have a slightly burnt coffee ground flavor, but this character should not be prominent if present. Low to medium malt sweetness, often with rich chocolate or caramel flavors. Medium to high bitterness. Hop flavor can be low to high, and generally reflects citrusy or resiny American varieties.
I think “lighter bodied hoppy American Stout” is a pretty fair characterization of the style.
One reason for giving it a shorter name would be that it’s getting to be popular enough to deserve one. The characterization is fair, but it’s also kind of a lot of words.
You’re putting too much stock in the BJCP guidelines.
They are certainly great for homebrew judging (actually in that arena, they are indispensable for keeping some semblance of order) but they are in no way the last word on beer “styles” (a topic upon which which homebrewers are getting far too hung up on these days).
The important thing to remember is that a beer is whatever the brewer decides to call it…In the real world there is no “official” authority on what a beer is or isn’t.
If it’s tasty and well made, it hardly matters anyway.
So, “Black Ale” it is! :mrgreen:
[quote=“The Professor”]The important thing to remember is that a beer is whatever the brewer decides to call it…In the real world there is no “official” authority on what a beer is or isn’t.
If it’s tasty and well made, it hardly matters anyway.
So, “Black Ale” it is! :mrgreen:
:cheers: [/quote]
Good points. And kind of what I assumed people would say. But still, American Stout. Sometimes I just hate renaming things for the sake of marketing. It’s like Budweisers top fermented ale. Yeah, it’s top fermented… because it’s an ale!
True enough… I’ve been curious about Schwartzbier, but I’m not at all set up for lagering. I suppose a top fermented version would be a black ale… I almost want to try to make one…
[quote=“The Professor”]You’re putting too much stock in the BJCP guidelines.
They are certainly great for homebrew judging (actually in that arena, they are indispensable for keeping some semblance of order) but they are in no way the last word on beer “styles” (a topic upon which which homebrewers are getting far too hung up on these days).
The important thing to remember is that a beer is whatever the brewer decides to call it…In the real world there is no “official” authority on what a beer is or isn’t.
If it’s tasty and well made, it hardly matters anyway.
So, “Black Ale” it is! :mrgreen:
:cheers: [/quote]
True! Even if the brewer wants to call it Cascadian Dark Ale. Watch out for those Cross Dressing Amatuers! If you think it’s more of a porter, but the brewer calls it a stout, it’s a stout.
How cool can you go? Before I got lagering ability I brewed one using Wyeast 2112. Wyeast 1007 would also work.[/quote]
I’m actually debating this now… currently, the area under the stairs where I usually ferment has been hovering between 59-61. Once we get a bit colder here, I might get down to the low to mid fifties… darn you for putting ideas into my head.
How cool can you go? Before I got lagering ability I brewed one using Wyeast 2112. Wyeast 1007 would also work.[/quote]
I’m actually debating this now… currently, the area under the stairs where I usually ferment has been hovering between 59-61. Once we get a bit colder here, I might get down to the low to mid fifties… darn you for putting ideas into my head.[/quote]
That is a good temp for both of those yeasts. WY1007 ferments into the mid 50s nicely.
Assuming you’re referring to Black IPA? or “Dark” IPA? or Cascadian?
This from BYO:
“…What differentiates Cascadian dark ale from a hoppy porter or stout?
There are really three main differences. The first would be the basic hop profile.
These beers are brewed using traditional IPA bittering, flavor and aroma hops with citrus, spice and floral characteristics. Typical hop selections would be Columbus, Centennial, Chinook, Amarillo, Simcoe and Cascade or hybrids of these like Warrior or Magnum. The second would be the vastly reduced roast malt flavor contributions. The use of debittered Carafa® malts instead of black patent or roast barley. This provides color without the harsher, burnt flavor profiles of robust porters or stouts. And finally, the third is the much drier finish. This is achieved through the use of very little light caramel malts and highly attenuative yeasts.”
[quote=“Tullybrook”]Assuming you’re referring to Black IPA? or “Dark” IPA? or Cascadian?
This from BYO:
“…What differentiates Cascadian dark ale from a hoppy porter or stout?
There are really three main differences. The first would be the basic hop profile.
These beers are brewed using traditional IPA bittering, flavor and aroma hops with citrus, spice and floral characteristics. Typical hop selections would be Columbus, Centennial, Chinook, Amarillo, Simcoe and Cascade or hybrids of these like Warrior or Magnum. The second would be the vastly reduced roast malt flavor contributions. The use of debittered Carafa® malts instead of black patent or roast barley. This provides color without the harsher, burnt flavor profiles of robust porters or stouts. And finally, the third is the much drier finish. This is achieved through the use of very little light caramel malts and highly attenuative yeasts.”[/quote]
Black ales typically would not have nitrogen. Nitro is traditionally reserved more for stouts and other British beers.
No beer needs nitrogen, not even a good stout. Nitrogen can be applied to any beer, light or dark, when one prefers the tiny creamy bubbles in the head but virtually zero carbonation left in the beer. It softens the flavor and texture of any beer, and it can sometimes be used to cover up technical errors with the beer. If you have a good beer, you don’t need nitrogen, ever.
A Black IPA should not be nearly as roasty or caramelly as a robust porter or American Stout.[/quote]
The best Black IPA’s I’ve tried (to my palate at least) have a significant roastiness, about on par with a porter. My philosophy is - if you’re just trying to make an existing style in a different color, why bother? How is that really a new style? Just use food coloring and call it a day. If you’re trying to hybridize some existing styles, then I think that you should really be trying to bring a little bit more to the table than just a new color.
I always thought the only reason why many pubs use nitrogen for certain beers was that they needed it to keep the low level of carbonation that’s desirable for beers that are traditionally served at a low level of carbonation. Otherwise they would have problems recreating the relatively still beer you get with cask ale because the tap system would tend to force CO2 into the beer.
Since homebrewers who keg probably aren’t trying to push the beer up 12 feet and through who knows how much beer line, shouldn’t they have a lot less need to worry about accidentally overcarbonating the beer?
Anyway, I got no idea about that since I’m still bottles only, but I can say that I like my CDA to be pretty still, around about what’s traditional for a lot of British styles. But I’m also pretty sure I’ve never had a bar serve me one that wasn’t at a more normal level of carbonation.
[quote=“dmtaylo2”]Black ales typically would not have nitrogen. Nitro is traditionally reserved more for stouts and other British beers.
No beer needs nitrogen, not even a good stout. Nitrogen can be applied to any beer, light or dark, when one prefers the tiny creamy bubbles in the head but virtually zero carbonation left in the beer. It softens the flavor and texture of any beer, and it can sometimes be used to cover up technical errors with the beer. If you have a good beer, you don’t need nitrogen, ever.[/quote]
I wanted to brew NB black cherry stout, but never bought the kit because I thought a stout needed nitrogen. I will have to try this black ale and the stout next! Thanks
