Well I dorked up my second batch somehow

Northern Brewer General
1

My first batch (American Wheat) went great, good beer, good taste. Not great beer, but hey…I made beer!

Was really looking forward to the second batch (Caribou Slobber) but something went wrong along the way somewhere. Primary fermentation was violent but very short lived, I was patient and monitored the gravity a couple of times, even pitching more yeast at one point to make sure all the sugar was gone.

Transferred to secondary after a bit and must have gotten a bug in it even though I’m extremely conscious with the sanitation. Spotted some “growth patches” on the surface a few days before Thanksgiving and immediately kegged it being very careful to avoid any of the penicillin lol. I suspect oxygen in the secondary was the cause because the airlock didn’t bubble once after sealing it up.

Despite my highest hopes, it didn’t work, it was undrinkable and believe me, after 21 years in the Navy I’ve had some bad beers. Poured it out for my homies yesterday and I’m skittish about transferring my Irish Red to secondary now (brewed 12 November), I think I’ll just leave it in primary before kegging here in a week or two (or threeve).

On the plus side, I had my first Dogfish Head 120 Minute IPA the other day, liked it a lot.

2

Some folks do but most don’t (transfer to a secondary that is) unless it’s a big beer that needs to age for a good while. I always leave in the primary for at least 3 weeks maybe longer. Sorry for your loss. Hope future brews go better for you. If you don’t already, get some PBW and star san and clean the heck out of everything.

3

I’m learning about secondary, and whether to do it or not. N.B. viddies (which is all I have to go by, no one close to me is a brewer) all show the secondary fermentation, and so I just thought it was “gospel” I can see the value in skipping that step, but then what is to gain in doing a secondary fermentation?

4

let the secondary debate begin…
Why do I secondary.
1, I went to a beginning brewing class and they recommended it.
2, I primary using a 6.5 gallon primary because I like to have the head space.
3, I have 3, 5 gallon carboys that I use for secondary. Very little head space, easier to handle, and I like to brew every other week and it gives me some flexibility as for the length of time I tie up a carboy.
4, I harvest yeast from the primary, and knock on wood, I’ve never had a stalled fermentation, or infection. Yes I’ve dumped 2 batches out of 49 in two years because I screwed up adding fruit.
5, Star San is really good as a sanitizer. I bought the 32oz. bottle 18 months ago and I still have a couple ozs. left. I pour 3-4 gallons into the carboy turn get it really foamy drain and turn it upside down into a $5.93 Wally world 2 gallon globe glass aquarium ( it has a really heavy base and you can drain the carboy with the handle attached). When I move a beer to secondary I let the beer force out the residual foam.
I’m not saying I’m correct, but it works for me.

5

A number of things caught my eye as potential issues in your post. Maybe one of these will give you a lead.

1.) Fermentation temps?? Ideally, your wort is chilled to 60-65 before pitching yeast and temperature of your fermenting beer is in the mid 60’s (which means surrounding temp will be in low 60’s) Warm fermentation temps can cause fast ferments with bad off flavors. Fermenting beer is 5+ degrees warmer than the room it is in. Temps in the 70’s can cause some significant issues, temps in the 80’s can be a “beer killer.” A wheat would have held up better to higher temps because of the yeast you were likely using and the “desired” taste of that style.
2.) How patient? I put my beer in primary ferment, put the lid on the bucket and don’t touch it for any reason for 3-4 weeks. I consider that being patient.
3.) Personal opinion - don’t “monitor” the gravity. I just feel that every time you put something in your beer, you inrtroduce the possibility of infection. If your wort is cooled, and you pitch enough healthy yeast, and you see fermentation progressing, and you are dealing with a “normal” beer (1.04-1.07 gravity) there is almost zero possibility that your yeast will not do its job. I wait 3-4 weeks and then the morning I plan on kegging/bottling I take a sample to taste it and get FG. On the extremely rare chance that your beer is not “done” at this point, you can leave it sit, rouse the yeast, add more yeast, etc. But I just don’t see the value in regularly checking gravity - just let it sit long enough to KNOW that it is done, and check it once to confirm.
4.) No need to pitch more yeast usually, unless you have a confirmation that something is totally screwed up. Especially with regular gravity beers. Especially if there was a “violent” ferment to start with.
5.) Could very well have happened. Did you taste it when transferring? Did it taste good before the transfer?
6.) What do you sanitize with? Ideally, IMO, you “clean” with PBW or oxy clean, and rinse. THEN, you “sanitize” with starsan and don’t rinse. Bleach can be a common cause of off flavors. Also, treating cleaners (onestep) like sanitizers can be a problem. Rinsing after sanitizing can be a problem as well.
7.) There really should be no bubbles in secondary - the beer is done “fermenting” in primary, secondary is really more about settling out, etc. Oxygenation can be a problem - more likely due to transferring it than airlock. But oxygenation is unlikely to make beer undrinkable.
8.) I don’t secondary unless it is a beer that requires extended aging. Longer primary, leaving my beer alone, being a little careful transferring at kegging/bottling - my beers are brilliantly clear from keg and bottle. Have had comments on several occasions on competition score sheets about clarity and if it is “filtered” it is so clear. Nope, not even secondaried. The key to clear beer, often, is simply a matter of letting it sit still at a cool temp. for a while. Opinions vary on this, but my experience says it is not worth it to secondary unless there is a real reason to.

6

I agree with everything Braufessor posted, especially on point #7:[quote=“Braufessor”]7.) There really should be no bubbles in secondary - the beer is done “fermenting” in primary, secondary is really more about settling out, etc.[/quote]It’s always irked me when it’s called a secondary fermentation.

7

[quote=“Braufessor”]

1.) Fermentation temps?? Ideally, your wort is chilled to 60-65 before pitching yeast and temperature of your fermenting beer is in the mid 60’s (which means surrounding temp will be in low 60’s) Warm fermentation temps can cause fast ferments with bad off flavors. Fermenting beer is 5+ degrees warmer than the room it is in. Temps in the 70’s can cause some significant issues, temps in the 80’s can be a “beer killer.” A wheat would have held up better to higher temps because of the yeast you were likely using and the “desired” taste of that style.

Used a swamp cooler and kept the temps in the mid to upper 60’s (depending on whether or not I remembered to change out the frozen water bottles on a given day). I have GOT to get a better system for temperature control.

2.) How patient? I put my beer in primary ferment, put the lid on the bucket and don’t touch it for any reason for 3-4 weeks. I consider that being patient.

…moderately patient?..lol. I don’t remember the exact time (no notes) but I had it in primary for more than 2 weeks because it let it sit for a while after repitching the yeast to see if it took off again.

3.) Personal opinion - don’t “monitor” the gravity. I just feel that every time you put something in your beer, you inrtroduce the possibility of infection. If your wort is cooled, and you pitch enough healthy yeast, and you see fermentation progressing, and you are dealing with a “normal” beer (1.04-1.07 gravity) there is almost zero possibility that your yeast will not do its job. I wait 3-4 weeks and then the morning I plan on kegging/bottling I take a sample to taste it and get FG. On the extremely rare chance that your beer is not “done” at this point, you can leave it sit, rouse the yeast, add more yeast, etc. But I just don’t see the value in regularly checking gravity - just let it sit long enough to KNOW that it is done, and check it once to confirm.

I think I checked it twice.

4.) No need to pitch more yeast usually, unless you have a confirmation that something is totally screwed up. Especially with regular gravity beers. Especially if there was a “violent” ferment to start with.

Noted! Thanks.

5.) Could very well have happened. Did you taste it when transferring? Did it taste good before the transfer?

I tasted it during every gravity reading and during the transfer as well. It tasted fine but that doesn’t mean something hadn’t already “gone south” but didn’t effect the taste yet. I noticed the flavor after the emergency kegging.

6.) What do you sanitize with? Ideally, IMO, you “clean” with PBW or oxy clean, and rinse. THEN, you “sanitize” with starsan and don’t rinse. Bleach can be a common cause of off flavors. Also, treating cleaners (onestep) like sanitizers can be a problem. Rinsing after sanitizing can be a problem as well.

Star San.

7.) There really should be no bubbles in secondary - the beer is done “fermenting” in primary, secondary is really more about settling out, etc. Oxygenation can be a problem - more likely due to transferring it than airlock. But oxygenation is unlikely to make beer undrinkable.

Got it.

8.) I don’t secondary unless it is a beer that requires extended aging. Longer primary, leaving my beer alone, being a little careful transferring at kegging/bottling - my beers are brilliantly clear from keg and bottle. Have had comments on several occasions on competition score sheets about clarity and if it is “filtered” it is so clear. Nope, not even secondaried. The key to clear beer, often, is simply a matter of letting it sit still at a cool temp. for a while. Opinions vary on this, but my experience says it is not worth it to secondary unless there is a real reason to.[/quote]

Thanks for all the advice! I really appreciate it.

8

If the fermentation was fast, temps probably got a little toasty. You’ll get fusal alcohols at higher temperatures which can cause the beer to taste “hot”, or strong alcohol overtones.

I had this happen with a honey pale. The yeast went apeshit. Temps were in the mid-70’s. This was before temperature controlled fermentation. I couldn’t handle the beer, but my friend thought it was great. I took the bottles (I bottled at the time) and stuck them on the shelf. I forgot about them until about a year later. On a whim I cracked one open and to my surprise it was fantastic! The beer completely mellowed out. It was a higher gravity ale (1.060’ish neighborhood). Keep in mind barley wines and other big hitters need at least a year to mellow out. If you tried to drink those “green”, I think it might slap you up side the head, too. :shock:

I’ve always used secondary from day one. Ales get one week in primary, lagers two. Secondary for ales can be as short as 3 weeks to months, depending on when I get around to kegging. Lagers, typically three months. Once I see that the yeast have started their thing, I basically check once a day to make sure nothing is blowing through the airlock. They know what to do without me poking and prodding around.

In other words, don’t micromanage your beer. :cheers: We’ve all been there at one point or another, so don’t sweat it.

Once the beer has alcohol in it from primary, the risk of infection drops substantially. Most likely you saw some yeast flocculation at the top after stirring it up a little with the transfer. Happens all the time with my beer - pretty normal stuff.

9

I’d like to say “Thank You” to the Brewers that have taken the time to respond to noob questions. I’ve learned a lot by reading these forums and many, many times while I’m not the original poster, the answers to the questions posed have educated me immensely!

Thank you

           Jeff  (Foamfollower)