I’m typically not huge on weizens (not huge on the banana/clove), but I think I will like it if it has a firm, complex malt backbone. I had a Vitus at one point, and I remember it being awesome. Raisiny/malty/earthy/figgy clove and banana in the background.
Then I bought another Vitus and Aventinus’ weizenbock. They seemed like nothing more than really boozy hefeweizens. Don’t get me wrong, they were well-made, but all I got was wheat/slick malt, warming alcohol, and yeast characteristics, not really any complex malt character.
I looked @ Jamil’s WB, and it has all kinds of crystal malts, special B’s, caramunich, carafa, etc. in it. This seems like it will have the malt character I am looking for.
Could the Aventinus/Weihenstephaners that I am having just be old? It doesn’t make sense that malt character would fade with time, it should get better…
I guess my question is what is this beer supposed to be? The commercial examples I am having recently aren’t great, but the Vitus I remember from January/descriptions in the style guidelines/BCS look damn tasty.
Since Vitus, Aventinus’ weizenbock, and Erdinger are coming from Germany age and condition does come into play from travel. They are also suppose to have a higher ABV then normal Hefs but have an enhanced malty flavor according the BJCP guidlines ( http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style15.php )
I’ve tried making this style a couple of times and all I can say is, don’t throw the kitchen sink in the recipe. Its too easy for the flavor to become muddled. Better to stick to a good dark caramunich (120 range) and a little chocolate malt for character. For base malt go with dark Munich and pils in about equal proportions. And I’d use at least 15IBU of hops, I think that actually accentuates the malt rather than obscuring it.
Edited to add: oh yeah I forgot the wheat. 50% wheat malt.
great advice, thanks! So you don’t like Jamil’s recipe (I will have to look at it tonight)
One question though: My understanding is this is typically a style that is lagered. If lagering for 6 weeks, could you get away with adding some more specialty malts, since the lagering will drop out the tannins and maybe some of the ‘muddling’ flavors?
The other weird thing is the dude who won the Sam Adams longshot competition with his Weizenbock is on the Jamil Show where they cover the style…and he doesn’t lager his! 1.075ish beer.
Its not that I don’t like JZ’s recipes, in fact I check BCS befor ebrewing a new style. I also look at NB’s recipes. Then I decide for myself what to add. I’ve been guilty of adding multiple specialty malts to a recipe, all the descriptions just sound so good. Then it doesn’t come out with any particular flavor. There was a talk given at last year’s NHC I think, that talked about brewing on the ones. Meaning, only use one of each kind of specialty malt etc. Kind of the opposite of kitchen sink brewing, and I think there is some merit.
But to paraphrase something Denny has said before, a simple recipe is always better unless it isn’t. So decide for yourself.
Agree with Lennie. JZ’s weizenbock has way too much in it. It should be pretty simple. And Vitus kicks ass! Benchmark of the style, as far as I’m concerned. As well as the regular hefe by Weihenstephaner.
[quote=“tom sawyer”]Its not that I don’t like JZ’s recipes, in fact I check BCS befor ebrewing a new style. I also look at NB’s recipes. Then I decide for myself what to add. I’ve been guilty of adding multiple specialty malts to a recipe, all the descriptions just sound so good. Then it doesn’t come out with any particular flavor. There was a talk given at last year’s NHC I think, that talked about brewing on the ones. Meaning, only use one of each kind of specialty malt etc. Kind of the opposite of kitchen sink brewing, and I think there is some merit.
But to paraphrase something Denny has said before, a simple recipe is always better unless it isn’t. So decide for yourself.[/quote]
Yep, it was Drew Beechum’s talk, and it was awesome! My simplest recipes are usually my best…
However, I might give Rodney’s a shot (pun fully intentded)…as he won TWO Longshot comps… “Muffin in a beer” is something I dig…
