Water profile for a Munich Helles

[quote=“dannyboy58”][quote=“Beersk”][quote=“zwiller”]Gasp. American malt in a pils?! :cheers:

I am contemplating using my sack of briess 2 row as the base for the helles? Can’t say I really ever noticed any difference with the german malts.[/quote]
NO! Don’t do it! Briess is shoddy, in my opinion…

I like a little melanoidin in a helles. That or like 20% munich or vienna. Adds a nice touch. I’ve seen plenty of helles biers that are almost amber in color and very munichy tasting.[/quote]

Beersk, what is it you don’t like about Briess 2 row?[/quote]

It just doesn’t taste quality to me. In an IPA, sure, you can’t taste the base malt anyway, but in something light where the malt character shines, Briess isn’t for me. For a style like Helles, you want the best German malts. Costs more, but it is so worth it.

[quote=“mattnaik”]

What’s your gravity and batch size?

Using

it appears you would need a 2L starter with the entire pack to reach the desired cell count for a 5.5gal 1.050 lager.[/quote]

Spot on 1.050ish 5.5G. Will have to spend some time with the calculator. Lots of nice info I want to check out.

[quote=“zwiller”]Got the weyerman pils. No good liquid lager yeasts at the LHBS so I grabbed a pack of saflager 34/70. Looks like I need to rehydrate, make a starter, get another packet. Any thoughts? Based on my research if I do a starter I should only use half a packet so the growth rate is ok. Not sure I am buying that. Probably been 20 years since I used dry yeast and figured I would give it a shot…

Recipe is looking like:
86% pils + 4% acid (90%)
8% light munich
2% aromatic

Hallertau to 25IBU[/quote]
34/70 makes a great Helles, but I’d go with two packs instead of messing with a starter. You’re right, half a pack and 3 or 4 liters starter will get you where you want, but a second pack is a lot easier and shouldn’t cost much more.

While not a giant sample size I’ve done 5 different helles brews, my favorite was with the Weyermann floor malted bohemian pilsner. Just used that and a small percentage aromatic (2%). For pH correction I used phosphoric as I usually do. For yeast I used WLP820, know it doesn’t get much love but it worked out really well for me on that beer.

Thanks. Finally ran the numbers on the cost of a starter and I guess a second pack won’t break the bank. I should rehydrate, right? Think I will brew at night and get wort down to 80F, throw in the fridge overnight set to 32F. Rehydrate yeast in the am and throw in fridge a while then pitch when wort and yeast are near 45F.

That brewer’s friend calculator has a ton of great info that obviously took alot of time to research. The info basically matched what I found. I am not easily impressed but I was.

Getting excited about this one with all the rage of 34/70…

Yeah, they also have a free iphone app that has a few nice calculators like temp corrections for hydrometer readings and boil-off/dillution calculators which come in really handy on brew day. It’s my most visited brew site outside of this forum :cheers:

Rehydrating should give you more healthy yeast that will help drive the beer dry, but I’m not sure it will in practice matter much with two packs pitched. Of course, it’s not that much extra work either to help ensure a healthier fermentation.

Not been on much do to broken wrist from car wreck… I have been working on my Munich helles recipe for long time. It’s one of my favorite German styles. I brewed jz’s helles and it’s not a bad beer. But always seemed to miss a little something so I played around added Vienna it nice adds a little sweetness to it but still didn’t have the same taste as many German helles beers. I played around few years trying to make it perfect. I got rid of the melanoidin malt and instead I used 2.5 oz of aromatic malt and 2.5 oz of biscuit malt. These were the key malt to get the closes German helles beer. I won best light lager twice using these malts in my helles.

My random thoughts:

Munich Helles:

Watch boil pH - you want a lower boil pH to give smoother hop bitterness (see Kai’s (Braukaiser) site about this). I’ve tried working with lower boil pH with Helles to good effect, takes the rough hop edges off.
+1 to Weyermann Acidulated malt (and Lactic acid). It does add that certain je ne sais quoi.
+1 to 7-15% light Munich or Vienna in the grain bill
Hallertau-derived hops. Maybe Perle. Not so hot on German Northern Brewer for Helles. You just want light supporting hoppiness with slight floral note…if anything.
After farting around with trying to get more floral hop aroma, I’ve found that Jamil’s single 60 minute addition of low AA Hallertau is right on. Late additions leave a bitter aftertaste after a cold, medium-long lagering period.

German Pilsner:

Try 7% or so Carahell, the rest Pilsner (German) malt, pH adjusted with acidulated.
Carahell adds a nice graininess that compliments the spicy hops (lean towards Tettnang/Saaz). Some folks (including Victory) like Spalt, I haven’t had much success with it in my recipes.

I’m finding I don’t like Carahell in a Helles, light Munich or Vienna should give just the right character and better grainy sweetness.
Carahell gives a bracing maltiness to a Pilsner, despite being a crystal (10) malt. It’s grainy, not sweet, to me.
I don’t think Melanoidin malt is necessary in a Helles or Pilsner.
I generally haven’t seen the need to add Carapils/Carafoam. Good mash, strong boil, clear wort, good ferment and clean, cold lagering yields plenty plenty plenty of head.

Yeast: go for a starter! I build up a 3 gallon starter from a vial to boost up yeast count and to get enough yeast to work with. Once a strain is built up, I repitch yeast (from lower OG beers) and make sure I have enough on hand.

Overall, when brewing light German beers, you can’t be too precise. Get a pH meter, know your water, have excellent/precise temp control, pitch cold, at least loosely monitor yeast counts (have plenty of yeast on hand and at try to at least visually watch slurry density and overall volume). Pitch cold, hold at 48F or so, don’t bother with a diacetyl rest (you don’t need it, you used enough yeast and kept cool temps, long enough, right?).

All grain, crush your own grain right before you brew. Use only German malts. Give it time to lager, you will be rewarded. Acidulated and Lactic acid have their places at the right times (mash vs boil) and once you dial your process in, you probably won’t need straight acid as much (depending on water of course). Use only German malts. I’m married to a German. Making things like a German does is a lifestyle and philosophy for living and is as much about process as ingredients. Take all of August off every year (and brew if you want). Work smart and finish at 5 every day. Once you’re done brewing your precisely brewed German lager…which you completed on schedule, enjoy a liter or two of your previous one, while eating a home made lye-dipped pretzel (and don’t skimp on the lye). Oh, and use only German malts…and hops.

Prost! :slight_smile: