[quote=“Pietro”]I’m going off of BJCP and BA guidelines which do not mention banana in a saison. Pepper, citrus, spicy/floral/grassy hops, maybe some low barnyard, sure. But a 10-year old BYO article when there was essentially one example of the style out there and it was pretty novel and unfamiliar to American beer writers is not a good place to get a style guideline. Though I will give you that its a hugely wide style with a lot of variance. I just don’t think that variance should include banana or bubblegum like the weizens.
I’m also going off my own taste preferences. Like you, I think Dupont is the gold standard for this style. But unlike you I get zero banana in that beer. Pepper, citrus, all subtle, and bone dry. That is what I love about the style. Banana is specifically what I don’t like about hefes, so I would probably spit out (or at least be annoyed) at a saison that truly has it.
Yes, belle saison (and all saison yeasts, and all beer yeast) produces esters and phenols, but it should not be producing the banana phenol (the specific name is escaping me).
I didn’t mean to create a whole debate here, but as an avid fan of saison, I feel the need to differentiate it from the weizen category, of which I am far from an avid fan (except weizenbock). In any event, it sounds like you brewed a beer that you love, which is what its all about, so enjoy and cheers![/quote]
The Dupont strain is low in banana esters, but I often pick up tons of bubblegum from it. It’s actually noted for the bubblegum flavor. In Farmhouse Ales (p. 168), Phil Markowski says about the Dupont strain, “… it produces a vast array of aromas and flavors–white pepper, mango, passion fruit, clove, bubble gum (juicy fruit – anyone), and general tropical fruit notes.”
I haven’t personally picked up much banana taste or aroma, but Markowski (p. 135-136) notes about the aroma profile of Saisons, they “generally posses classic fruity, ale-like aromatics. Several versions have a distinctive (notably pepper) yeast character as well as typical ale-like esters (apricot, bubblegum, banana) with a notable reduction in classic clove-like phenols.”
So I think it’s fair to say that some Saison yeast strains produce banana esters despite there being no mention in the BJCP and BA guidelines. The guidelines need work for Saison imo, because the OG range is too high on the low end. A classic Saison is in the range of 3% to 5% ABV, and the BJCP OG low end for OG will put you over 5% in most cases. I’ve been fortunate in that several local brewpubs, including my favorite – Shillings Brewery in Littleton, NH – have produced low alcohol traditional Saisons over the past few years. I prefer these session Saisons over most of the high alcohol versions available at my specialty beer stores in bombers.
But Markowski also says (p. 129), “Saisons defy easy categorization, and are sometimes rife with contradictions.” So I think pretty much anything goes!
:cheers:
So yeah, it makes sense that the OG would be so low. You would need a lot more grain to get up near the 1058 level. Just back of the napkin says about 12#s.