Fermenting at high temperatures encourages the production of fusel alcohols, which are harsh tasting and give you headaches. It also usually contributes lots of esters, which often taste fruity. Temperature control is widely cited as the biggest improvement people make to their brewing.
Partial boil, as opposed to full boil (making a concentrated wort and then topping up with water in the fermenter) is attributed with causing “homebrew flavor” by some people. You’re basically making a more concentrated wort, utilizing hops differently than the recipes were designed for.
In bottle-carbing, the yeast is under high pressure, and it’s possible that this leads to particular flavors. A lot of commercial beers are bottle-carbonated, so you could find one, try it, and see if that has the flavor you’re finding. If so, you’ve found your culprit.
I’ve had the same thought of course. It’s completely possible, but I am pretty rigid with my sanitation procedures. I would be frustrated if it was an infection issue. I would describe the taste as a slightly sweet sherry flavor. I am bottling a barley wine this month and will redouble my efforts to keep everything clean.
The beer may take a little longer to clear, but there isn’t even a consensus on that. Whether or not a “secondary”* is beneficial is a topic of debate, at least among home brewers. Very few pro breweries use one.
* I use quotes because what we’re talking about is bulk conditioning, not a true secondary fermentation.[/quote]
that is something that bugs the crap out of me. huge difference between bulk aging & secondary fermentation. I just put my BW into a secondary fermentation last night. it has picked up quite nicely this morning. bulk aging can be more harmful (IMO) in many styles, unless you’re dry hopping. but the most important thing to remember is: bottle/keg & drink when you like it. it’s your beer. just watch your sanitation practices, pitch rates, ferm temps, and siphon gently from primary/secondary/bulk age to reduce oxidization.
I’m sure my sanitation practices are good for all my equipment up to actual bottling. For the bottles, I bake them in my oven at 350F for about 20-30 minutes. Since a boil is only 212F, I figure 350 will kill anything in there. Am I wrong here?
Adding of sugar, and a refermentation of the beer in the bottle (using yeast that did not drop out yet)
Yeast under pressure
Adding of sugar, and a refermentation of the beer in the bottle, generally in a warm place to carbonate.
I did an experiment, where beers where left to carb warm, and beers were left to carb at around 55f, the ones at 55 were much much less “twangy”, but it was still there which leads me back to 1 and 2.
First off, I have to suspect that partial-boil is one of the issues. When I was an extract brewer, the ONE thing that improved the quality of my beers was moving to full-volume boils, no question. I used to boil 3 gallons and “top up” and every one of my beers was darker than it should’ve been and they all had that overbearing, metallic, clunky flavor. I didn’t see where the OP was saying that they were partial-boiling but I’m assuming he is. I know that larger pots can be expensive but if you could swing a 7½ or 8 gallon pot (borrow one if you have to) and try boiling ALL of the water, extract, hops, etc., you will notice a difference. I like that you’re using RO or distilled water for your extract beers… you can scratch off a huge list of potential issues by doing that. The other big one is pitching and fermenting at the correct temp. This was another thing that opened my eyes. I used to let my ales ferment on my “cool” basement floor and I used to make lagers in a swamp cooler. Now I ferment my ales in a swamp cooler and my lagers in a fridge. Try to ferment your ales in the 60-65° range (unless it’s a Belgian or Hefe strain of yeast that calls for higher temps) and see if that helps. Beers brewed at lower temps are usually cleaner and allow for the real flavors of malt, hops and yeast to come through better. There’s a bunch of stuff on my site if you’re interested… including a “GENERAL BREWING INFORMATION” page and also a page for NEW BREWERS. Link below. Good luck & cheers.
[quote=“Whitbk”]I think it has more to do with a few things…
Adding of sugar, and a refermentation of the beer in the bottle (using yeast that did not drop out yet)
Yeast under pressure
Adding of sugar, and a refermentation of the beer in the bottle, generally in a warm place to carbonate.
I did an experiment, where beers where left to carb warm, and beers were left to carb at around 55f, the ones at 55 were much much less “twangy”, but it was still there which leads me back to 1 and 2.[/quote]
I’ve had similar thoughts. Force carbing a beer with gas is pretty neutral. Allowing a second “fermentation” to occur via bottle conditioning is essentially a bit of a wild card. There are a number of variables such as amount of sugar introduced, amount of yeast present, conditioning temps, etc. It makes sense that off flavors could result, or at least additional flavors.
I agree with Ken, totally …I experienced the same epiphany of sorts when I moved from the partial boil to full wort boiling. I had already been partial boiling for 12 years when I moved to a full boil in 1983. The difference was actually pretty dramatic.
The other big quality boost came from switching to liquid yeast later that same year (the dry yeasts back then were nowhere near the quality they are now)
If you’re able to move up to a full wort boil, go for it. I suspect that you’ll see a difference in your results fairly quickly.
You’ll then also be one step closer to all grain brewing if you decide to take that plunge.
[quote=“The Professor”]If you’re able to move up to a full wort boil, go for it. I suspect that you’ll see a difference in your results fairly quickly.
You’ll then also be one step closer to all grain brewing if you decide to take that plunge.[/quote]
I actually went all-grain before I started doing full boils. FWIW, I don’t think there’s a decrease in quality due to a concentrated boil - at least, not at normal gravities.
[quote=“a10t2”][quote=“The Professor”]If you’re able to move up to a full wort boil, go for it. I suspect that you’ll see a difference in your results fairly quickly.
You’ll then also be one step closer to all grain brewing if you decide to take that plunge.[/quote]
I actually went all-grain before I started doing full boils. FWIW, I don’t think there’s a decrease in quality due to a concentrated boil - at least, not at normal gravities.[/quote]
I realize everyone’s brewing experience is different (as are their tastebuds) but you may be the first person I’ve heard make that statement. I’m not trying to call you out… just relaying what I have heard many times by many brewers… full volume boil is the best way to improve your extract beers. I only make 1.050ish beers anyway and I noticed a giant leap of quality. Again, that was just the case for me. If someone close to the OP had a larger pot, maybe the brewer could try it one time without expense and see if that beer comes out better. To be honest, we’re all stabbing in the dark on this anyway. The flavor could be coming from a number of sources including water, a mild infection, stale ingredients, oxidation due to poor handling, underpitching, low or no oxygenation of the wort, high fermentation temps and a bunch of other things. I added my last post because the angels sung when I tasted that first full-volume boiled batch.
I suppose there could be a difference between extract and AG, although I kind of doubt it. I’ve often wondered if people see an improvement when switching to full boils simply because that’s generally also when they start chilling quickly. I have to think that if there was any real downside to a partial boil, the big lager breweries wouldn’t do them.
I guess I can’t totally rule out the possibility that I simply can’t taste whatever it is that makes a concentrated boil taste unpleasant either. I’ve been pleased with the ones I’ve brewed recently, though, and this beer http://seanterrill.com/2011/03/06/partial-boil-followup/
scored a 41 in competition.
I am on board with a10t2 that the evils of partial boils are overblown.
I brew about 1/3 of my batches with a full wort, all-grain process.
I brew 2/3 of my batches “mostly grain” (I can get about 1.046-1.048 worth of gravity from my mash) and a 4 gallon boil for a 5.25 gallon batch.
When I add extract or sugar to augment that grain, I do so with 15m left in the boil.
I adjust for lower hop utilization in the concentrated boil.
I notice virtually no difference between the outcome of the two processes.
I have eliminated off flavors in other folks’ homebrew by suggesting the following:
Make sure your equipment is clean (I Star San or boil everything).
Maintain a roiling boil, do not use a lid.
Cool hot wort rapidly to 80 degrees or lower.
Either aerate your cooled wort of agitate the hell out of it for good oxygen levels.
Pitch at proper temp for the yeast.
Maintain the proper fermentation temp for at least 3 weeks (for a modest gravity, longer for high gravs). I usually swirl the fermenter a few times to rouse yeast during this period. I usually increase the temp a few degrees the last few days and give it a good swirling as well.
What’s your attenuation like? In my experience, going to all-grain was the single largest biggest improvement I made in brewing. Many of the extracts you can buy do not attenuate fully and the residual sweetness can cause what some people call that “homebrew taste”.
Are you saying that bottle conditioning contributes an off-flavor?[/quote]
I wouldn’t say it does at all, but the original complaint was of bitterness and, if he is getting yeast in his glass, he will get flavors from the yeast and bitterness from hop material stuck to the yeast. The original complaint was of bitterness. He may want to make sure he gives the yeast enough time to settle and pours carefully.
My first thought, however, was that he was complaining about extract twang.
I started full boil & got better hop utilization. it’s also nice not having to top up with gallons. my next leap I’m going for AG. I don’t see anything wrong with brewing with extract or partial boils, just a step in a different direction. as for the bottling vs kegging, I’ve personally been getting clearer beers from the keg. but I haven’t noticed any other difference. I’d rather bottle a BW & keg an APA.
you want to improve you beer making? take advice one step at a time. it’s your beer & your taste. find out what works around that.
To the OP: Does the flavor change over the course of time? Have you tasted this flavor in beers that have been in the bottle for a few months? I ask because I wonder if your flavor could be “green beer” flavor. This is what you might experience if you tried drinking a corn sugar-primed beer after it’s only been in the bottle for a week or so. I’m guessing that I’m barking up the wrong tree because over time, many bottles from some of your earlier batches would mature and that flavor would go away. But green beer does have a harsh, edgy character that I may or may not describe as bitter but it’s certainly not pleasant.
I think with partials the issue is with over boiling/heating with a concentrated mixture. Full boils or just really careful at boils avoiding scorching. The suggestion of adding half at the end is great too.
