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Sierra Nevada's Otra Vez

I am an extract brewer in search of a recipe for Sierra Nevada’s Otra Vez. It is a killer gose and in my mind the perfect addition to the summer line-up. Can anyone help with a shot at a recipe?

Thanks in advance!

This thread (and this reply) may be of interest.

Thanks Small Batch, however I do not see a recipe.

Check back in a couple of weeks & see if they decided to make one. If you find something along the way, I suspect they would be willing to look at it.

I’ve never had this beer… Can you describe it? How intensely sour is it? Is it noticeably salty, or just a hint? What’s the fruit character like in it? I see it has grapefruit and cactus fruit, but what’s it like on a scale 1-10, where 1 is bud light and 10 is fruit juice?

I’ve had the beer. It was good. The salt seemed to be just enough to dry your mouth and make you want another sip. The sourness was not over the top, very refreshing. Fruit was low. Worth picking it up. I’d love to see what you think Porkchop.

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Cool. Gotchya.

What he said…prickly pear is interesting.

So with the MAJOR caveat that I have not had this beer, here’s what I would do to get a decent gose base that you can adjust with the proper fruit additions to get you close. I’m not going to call it a clone, by any means, but it’ll get you a solid gose that you can tweak to get it the way you want.

You’ll need to decide if you’re going to keep the lacto alive in your beer, or if you’re going to kill it off prior to pitching yeast. Killing the lacto eliminates the risk of contaminating your equipment (treat it like any other clean ale), but live lacto will make for a better product in the long run as it will change in the bottle. If you keep the lacto alive, just get a spare plastic carboy that you can use just for sours, an extra auto-siphon, and bottling bucket/spigot/bottling wand. Or just practice really good sanitation and trust that Star-San will kill wild yeast and bacteria (which is what it is supposed to do).

Step 1 - get yourself a quart container of mango Goodbelly probiotic juice. Lots of grocery stores have it, or it’ll almost certainly be at a natural food store. This will contain the lactobacillus for souring the wort.

All grain, mash at 148F and sparge to get 5.5 gallons 1.045 wort. Traditional grist is a mix of pils and wheat, I like a 60-40 split, so about 5# pils and 3.5# white wheat malt.

Extract, use 5# DME for 5 gallons wort. I would probably do 3# pilsner or extra light, and 2# wheat DME.

Collect your wort in the kettle, and either do a short boil (5 minutes) or pasteurize at 170F for about 10 minutes. NO HOPS!

Chill wort to 90F. If you have food-grade lactic acid, adjust kettle pH to 4.4-4.7. This is to keep spoilage bacteria at bay while it sours, as added insurance if your sanitation isn’t perfect, and to improve the foam on the final product. If you don’t have a pH meter, add around 5ml 88% lactic acid, maybe 10ml if your water is pretty hard. If you don’t have lactic acid on hand, go for the 5 minute boil instead prior to chilling and don’t worry about it.

If you want to kill the lacto, once the wort is at 90F, shake up your carton of Goodbelly and dump about half into the wort in the kettle. Seal it up as best you can, and put it aside for 18-24 hours. Don’t worry about purging the headspace with CO2, it won’t do any good. Let it cool to room temperature.

If you’re going to keep the lacto alive, transfer it to your carboy once it’s at 90F and add your Goodbelly. Airlock it and set it aside to cool to room temperature.

After 18 to 24 hours at room temperature, taste the soured wort. There should be no krausen, but the wort should be nice and cloudy. It should be sweet but with some tartness, like a lemonade. If you have a pH meter, take a measurement and see if the pH is 3.2-3.5. It should be.

If you left the wort in the kettle, go ahead and finish your boil, go for the full 60 minutes so you don’t have any DMS. Chill to ale pitching temperatures, and pitch 2 packets of US-05. You’ll need the extra cell count due to the low pH.

If you are not killing the lacto, just add your 2 packets US-05 to the carboy. Don’t worry too much about headspace, as you won’t get nearly as thick of a krausen with the low pH, but a blow-off tube is never a bad idea.

Fermentation is usually done within 10-14 days. Bottle or keg, it’s nice at higher carb levels like 2.7-3.0 volumes.

For a traditional gose, I like 15g sea salt per 5 gallons. This gives you a subtle hint of salt, and you can always add more later. 15g coriander is traditional at flameout. Skip the coriander if you’re going to use the grapefruit and cactus fruit like in this beer.

To get close to this one, I’d start with 15g salt and the zest of 1 grapefruit at flameout. Maybe even the juice, but don’t get any of the bitter pith in your beer. For the cactus fruit? No idea - you’re on your own for that one!

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So @porkchop you’re not using any hops at all? Even if you plan on pasteurization?

Not in a typical gose… I’m personally not a fan of bitter and sour. Now a dry hop? Friggin’ incredible! Also, pasteurizing at 170F lends itself to a hopstand. Galaxy, Nelson, citra… Awesome in a lacto sour if used for flavor!

I like to use a dry hop that complements the fruit or other flavors in a beer like this. Lots of choices to amp up the flavor of grapefruit.

Hmmm maybe this calls for one of my 2.25 gal test batches…

Edited to add thanks @porkchop. Really good info.

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Hey, I’m glad to help! You really should play with the idea - it’s just so different than most other beers out there, and such a good style for the warmer months.

It’s also REALLY HARD to make this kind of beer on the commercial scale. Hats off to the folks that make it work, but most of the time it doesn’t. Most lacto sours I’ve bought are really acetic, or have butyric acid. But this is a style that’s so easily done at home, and there are so many possibilities…

Sweet thanks porkchop! Gonna have to give this a try. Ever pitch some Brett with it?

All the time, bud! Usually the fruitier ones… ECY DD and TYB Lochristi are great!

Saw this beer in a bottle shop, and picked one up. Honestly didn’t care much for it - I got some butyric acid in it that’s pretty much a no-go for me. Other than that, I found it only slightly tart and a little more salty than what I would do - so I would probably increase the salt addition to more like 30g/5 gallons. This must be soured in the pH 3.7-4.0 range, so if going with the Good Belly it would probably have to get boiled and stopped before it drops too far, or may need to be lightly hopped, maybe 5 IBU max.

I didn’t get much grapefruit, but the cactus fruit was interesting. Came across almost as a watermelon or honeydew character. If cactus fruit wasn’t available, I’d probably try melon instead.

Not a bad beer, but butyric acid really turns me off and it’s in far too many commercial quick-soured beers. Without that, it would be a nice beer for a hot summer day. Now if only they got it a little more sour… or a lot more. :grin:

Hi Porkchop! Thank you for all your assistance. A few quick questions for you:

  1. If you choose not to use good belly and instead use a liquid lacto, what one would you choose? http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewing/brewing-ingredients/beer-yeast/liquid-yeast?yst_format=894&yst_style=909

  2. If you choose not to use US-05 and instead use a liquid yeast, what would you choose?

  3. If you add grapefruit juice, how much would I add?

  4. If you plan on keeping the lacto alive, how much time (if at all) should there be between adding lacto and adding the yeast?

Thanks again for all your assistance!

  1. I honestly would not use either a Wyeast or White Labs product. White Labs has been having issues with their lacto cultures being contaminated with yeast, and although I’ve heard that the issue has been resolved, both 672 and 677 are not the most robust strains of lacto. Given the two, I might go with brevis (672) though. The best liquid culture right now is Omega Labs OYL-605. A 1-liter starter at room temperature will allow up to 10 gallons of wort to drop to 3.5 or less within 24 hours at room temperature. The next best choice would be Swanson lacto plantarum probiotic tablets. They can be found on Amazon for like $8 for 30. 3 tablets in a 1-liter starter will also drop your pH to the same range within 24 hours. So if you can’t find Good Belly, I’d highly recommend either OYL-605 or Swanson lacto p.

  2. Just about any liquid ale strain would be fine. WLP-001/WY1056 would be great, as would any saison strain (save the 565 for something special, though!). You will want to make a large starter as you’ll be pitching yeast into a hostile environment. Oxygenation is fine, but boil your aeration stone afterwords.

  3. I’d be careful with grapefruit juice - most of the flavor is from the oils found in the zest. I would start with no more than a pint and go from there. It’ll ferment dry and bitter, which is why I prefer the zest.

  4. Completely depends on your lacto strain. If you have good temperature control and can keep the souring wort over 100F, brevis will get you there within a few days. But I would stick with something containing lacto plantarum (good belly, OYL-605, swanson’s) and your wort will be sour within 24 hours. I usually pitch yeast at 18 hours.

I didn’t get any butyric from it, I’ll have to pick some up and see if I can detect it.

I’ll admit to being overly sensitive to it. I picked it up as it warmed, though.

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