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Sake question about moto

Hi there

I followed the instructions for a sake kit which is basically this page printed out

http://www.tibbs-vision.com/sake/moto1.html

I am making my moto right now which is the yeast starter. I put it in my refridgerator because that is what the instructions said. But I was just reading up on teh sake i purchased WLP705

http://www.whitelabs.com/yeast/wlp705-sake-yeast?s=pro

This yeast says it needs temps around 70-75 to ferment. This conflicts with the documentation stating that sake yeast is a lager style yeast.

I took the starter (moto) out of the refrigerator for now to bring it up in temp.

Should I be following the steps but treat the fermentation process as an ale?

Thanks any help would be appreciated.

At the risk of sounding like a snob…don’t follow the Tibbs-Vision instructions. There are much better[/url] resources [url=http://www.homebrewsake.com]available
http://www.taylor-madeak.org
on the internet.

With that out of the way, your question:

[quote]
This yeast says it needs temps around 70-75 to ferment. This conflicts with the documentation stating that sake yeast is a lager style yeast.

I took the starter (moto) out of the refrigerator for now to bring it up in temp.

Should I be following the steps but treat the fermentation process as an ale?[/quote]

The temperature that you are referring to from White Labs is the optimum fermentation temperature for that yeast. That means that the yeast ferments the fastest in that temperature range.

As brewers, we’re not necessarily interested in fast. We’re interested in quality. In regard to sake, that means the closer you can keep your fermentation to the 45ºF-50ºF range, the better off your sake will be.

I hope that helps.

Thanks for your post, I wish i had seen your article before I started. I should bring this up with my local brew shop and let them know to use your article instead.

So since there is no going back I am just continuing the process. Will use your article for my next attempt. I moved into primary fermentation and started building up my sake to the volume of 6 gallons over 3 days. I just added my last additions to my primary and have a really strong fermentation going on. The smell is sweet and cheesy so I do not think anything is going wrong yet…

I was wondering how to figure out what I will get for final volume. I added a total of 4 gallons of water and 20 lbs of rice from start to finish including the moto which gave me about 6 gallons volume of the sake soup mixture you see in my picture. So am I going to get 4 gallons of sake? Minus a little for what I can’t strain off

Depending on how well pressing goes, I would guess 2.5 gallons, up to 4 if you can separate all the rice solids out of the mixture.

20 pounds of rice and 4 gallons of water? dray, that is double what the usual recipe calls for. I’d say you’re likely to end up with around 5 gallons of finished sake, slblimenal.

Well, I can’t seem to get more than 2 gallons out of my stuff at 10lbs of rice, but I’m thinking clear finished product too. I was thinking anywhere up to 4 gallons clear, fined and pasteurized sake.

Really? I usually end up with just over 3 gallons of finished, clear, genshu sake from 10 pounds of rice. Maybe we’re using different pressing techniques?

Yep, that’s the problem. Either I expect too much from the pressing, or my technique totally sucks. I am pretty sure it totally sucks.

That was the inspiration to make an over-sized cheese press from a stainless steel pot.

I still need to modify it and either place the pot into some sort of shallow pan and put a bunch of holes into it and drain the shallow pan, or make a manifold at the bottom of the press. I actually crushed a 9" stainless steel domed mash screen on my first attempt.

So my numbers are skewed a bit in estimating sake output.

Hey thanks for your help guys, I ended up with 5 gallons of pressed sake. It is currently cold conditioning. It taste great and although I have to guess the alcohol content (thinking 17%) my fractometer reads a 5, guessing the remainder will ferment itself out in the next weeks. I’m sure I didnt follow the traditional methods but it was my first time and im very happy with what im tasting (unlike the first time i brewed beer lol).

Heres a few pics from the pressing process.

Nice work! A bit of advice: don’t use a refractometer on sake. It’s so inaccurate as to be just about pointless. Buy yourself a finishing hydrometer instead.

Ah ok, last time i used teh hygrometer it was a failure because of all the sedement. Just took a reading with it now and its reading 1.000 so looks like everything is fermented out.

Nope. A SG of 1.000 in sake indicates that there is still some residual sugar left. At that point, it’s still pretty sweet to my palate, so that’s generally where I will stop fermentation on a nigorizake. A truly dry sake will ferment out to around SG 0.096.

Regardless, when the moromi hits SG 1.000, that’s when I press.

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