I’ve been brewing mostly Belgian ales for the past year and a half, adding technical improvements along the way so that now I do all grain, batch sparges, water corrections, full boils and fermentation temperature control (not too great on keeping temps low yet). Now I’m wanting to try out different styles and so yesterday I brewed a NB kit, Sierra Madre. I don’t like too much bitterness, but am liking hop flavor more, so I decreased the bittering hops and increased the flavor hops to reach the IBUs Sierra Nevada Pale Ale is supposed have – 37. I’m not sure how this will work, but time will tell.
The question is, what recipes would lend themselves to using WY1056 and getting some great hop flavors without excessively unbalanced bitterness? I’m intrigued by what some posters have described as mango, berry, and other hop flavors (not too interested in grapefruit and other citrus flavors). I’m imagining that the beer would be based on an American Pale Ale style, but would be interested in what others might suggest.
This yeast is a very easy yeast to work with. It is the “Chico” strain (aka Sierra Nevada). Usually a big attenuator and big flocculator. Equivalent to WLP001 or US-05 (though US-05 can behave slightly differently, which polarizes the West Coast IPA/APA purists).
I would really focus on hopping schedule if you don’t like a bitter bitter beer (which I personally don’t either).
I would suggest researching hopburst/hopstand IPA’s and APA’s. They have a very small (if any) bittering addition, but a ton of late additions, which present as those flavors and aromas you are describing.
Also keep in mind that measured IBU’s are not everything. Two beers can have the exact same IBU’s, one achieved through bittering addition, one achieved through massive late additions, and they will have very different profiles.
If your question is what HOPS will give you these profiles, I would just check out some of the descriptions on your retailer of choice, but lean toward Galaxy, Montueka, Zythos, Amarillo, and maybe even Caliente.
Hop bursting really works nicely and I would recommend it highly. One thing you need to bear in mind however is that if you late hop you need to be able to cool the wort very quickly, and I mean the entire boil volume otherwise those late hops are sitting in hot wort and yeah, they are isomerizing giving you progessively more bitter beer. Also, the volotile aromas are being driven off by the heat partially negating the reason for late hopping in the first place. I think you will find that late hopping also gives you a less harsh bittering which in my opinion is the difference between an ok hoppy beer and a really great one.
It sounds like my search for recipes that emphasize hop flavor over bitterness comes down to the subject of late addition hops – hop bursting/hopstand.
I’ve done some beers with late additions for more aroma and flavor, but not really come across the issue of needing to cool the wort quickly, but it makes sense that you probably don’t want “fragile” hop components being degraded by extended time in heat. I’ve read on this forum about people leaving hops in the wort for extended times after flameout which did make me wonder about how much bitterness was being created.
If you were to get some bitterness from earlier flavor or even bittering additions, how quickly do you need to cool the wort for the late additions to remain useful? Right now our municipal water temperature is super low and yesterday I was able to chill my wort to 60F in 25 minutes using a copper coil wort chiller, but later in the year it will be much longer – up to 45 minutes due to the increased temperature of the water in the lines. Is there some point where it’s not feasible to do hop bursting because it takes too long to cool the wort? I’m trying to get a handle on whether or not I can make this work with my systems limitations. Any good references for this technique?
To get what you’re looking for, you need to focus on technique, and hop strain (in that order).
Extracting hop flavor and aroma from your hops while delicately balancing the bitterness is not something that you can get from someone else’s recipe. A recipe is a starting point but you need to figure out how your system responds to some or all of:
-First Wort Hops
-Kettle hops (bittering)
-Kettle hops (mid-boil)
-Kettle hops (flameout)
-Whirlpool/hop steeping
- time
- temp
-Dry hopping
- amount
- form (pellet/leaf)
- time
- temp
What I have found works for me (and this may not work for you) to get big juicy hop flavor is to get all of my IBUs from FWH and a 60 minute addition. I add no other hops until flameout, at which point I add a large amount-- depending on style, 1-4 oz – of aroma hops. I then dry hop the beer with a similar amount at cellar temps with leaf hops in a nylon bag for 5-15 days. I often will leave the dry hops in the keg when I put the beer on tap.
There is not an answer to your question that works for everyone. Relatively few commercial beers accomplish what you’re trying to do, but the ones that do tend to be extremely successful.
The good news is the WY1056 is perhaps the ideal yeast for this sort of thing.
Thanks for the guidance on FWH, Wahoo. I just read on the “hops” part of the forum that someone suggested subbing the 20 min flavor hops for FWH for an APA which sounds parallel to what you said. This sounds like a great experiment for me to use the previous APA/1056 yeast cake. So I’m thinking of using the generic APA recipe by Pietro and maybe using the FWH will avoid the need for rapid cooling noted by Barley Water. Also, the issue of water affecting hop expression – I’m assuming (maybe incorrectly) that this concerns S04/Cl ratios, bitterness ratios, water profiles, etc.
In any case, I think I may have enough to go on for now and can give FWH a try, something I’ve been interested in, but now think I’ve got a little more information to go on.
Any suggestion for the hops to try to get a “tropical” fruity flavor (not too much citrus though)? Would Pietro’s suggested hops be appropriate?
I’m not familiar with all those hops (I do love both Galaxy and Amarillo) and I would add Nelson Sauvin, Mosaic, Citra (I get more tropical than citrus/pine) and anything else with high oil content. Columbus isn’t citrus, but it is dank and can be harsh if used mid-boil. I think hop variety is secondary to how you use them. Also, the later in the process, the more comfortable you can be in taking risks in terms of variety and amount. I am pretty conservative with my FWH/boil hops, and am more likely to throw caution to the wind and experiment with the flameout hops or dry hops.
These taste very vinous to me, I don’t get much if any tropical (I’m thinking of the one beer by Anchor that features them. White grape/grassy, like a sauv blanc.
These taste very vinous to me, I don’t get much if any tropical (I’m thinking of the one beer by Anchor that features them. White grape/grassy, like a sauv blanc.[/quote]
Again, variety is secondary to how you use it. New England Brewing’s Coriolis IPA is all Nelson Sauv’s and it is a tropical fruit bomb.
