Pros and cons of using organic base malt

[adam20]

@grainbelt

[quote=“Adam20”]Wether you get better flavor or not doesnt matter to me. Its proven that foods with peticides and growth hormones can cause negativie things in our bodies. The question is, do you care to put the time and money and effert into being sure your food has nothing like that in there. If you do then go for the organic brewing grains, and have a garden that you dont have to use pesticides on. Its fun too. Oooh! you could start growing barley lol

You don’t think there isn’t anything bad on “organic” stuff?[/quote]

Certainly there is. However soil conditions and things placed on the plant are important to know about. The human body already has more bacterial cells on it than it does cells that make up the body. These are called normal flora. I think that introducing unecessary chemicals is kind of silly but everybody has a different degree of caring. Im not going out of my way to get organic food aside from growing my own vegetables.
I also think our society has a tenndency to want to over sanitize and you just end up with worse, more resistent strains of bacteria and other things that way.

[adam20]

@grainbelt

[quote=“Shadetree”][quote=“tom sawyer”]You’re drinking an alcoholic beverage with empty calories and worrying about trace pesticides or fertilizers?[/quote]We know what repeated exposure to alcohol and empty calories does to us, but I think we’re less clear on what happens when we repeatedly ingest inorganic substances meant to kill and maim living things. Avoiding stuff that changes DNA seems like it might be a good idea, but I’m not (yet) worried about it enough to buy organic grain.

so the usda is letting us eat stuff that will maim and kill us? and there is nothing bad on the so called organic food…[/quote]

It wont maim and kill us. Thats silly. He said living things. Pest, bugs, not humans. These chemicals are meant to kill the bugs after all. The root word is pest in pesticide.

[adam20]

@tom sawyer

I just heard that the number one source of dioxin (the most toxic substance known) in the US, comes from people burning trash in their burn barrels. Hard to avoid air.

Thats interesting. Do you have a source? Was it an article or something I could read?

[grainbelt]

@Adam20

[quote=“tom sawyer”]I just heard that the number one source of dioxin (the most toxic substance known) in the US, comes from people burning trash in their burn barrels. Hard to avoid air.

Thats interesting. Do you have a source? Was it an article or something I could read?[/quote]

I dont think people burning trash in rural areas where it is allowed even comes close to large factories output that burn.

I burnt trash on a regular basis and unless your hunched over the burning barrel you dont have anything to worry about

[shadetree]

[quote=“grainbelt”]so the usda is letting us eat stuff that will maim and kill us? and there is nothing bad on the so called organic food…[/quote]Yes, the government allows food production methods that are detrimental to the consumer – one only needs to look at how many people are made sick by e-coli each year to realize that the system is broken. Or read “Fast Food Nation”.

On a brewing related note, who knew that the FDA allows 2,500 aphids per 10 oz of pre-harvest hops?
http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/GuidanceDocuments/Sanitation/ucm056174.htm

[grainbelt]

[quote=“Shadetree”][quote=“grainbelt”]so the usda is letting us eat stuff that will maim and kill us? and there is nothing bad on the so called organic food…[/quote]Yes, the government allows food production methods that are detrimental to the consumer – one only needs to look at how many people are made sick by e-coli each year to realize that the system is broken. Or read “Fast Food Nation”.

On a brewing related note, who knew that the FDA allows 2,500 aphids per 10 oz of pre-harvest hops?
http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/GuidanceDocuments/Sanitation/ucm056174.htm
[/quote]

Haha…ok

[gbtri]

I recently read an article on Organic foods that said in recent tests on organic produce most had
pesticide residue on them. not applied but over spray or drift from adjacent normal farms.
Gary

[brewsumore]

True, although I’d argue that even if we are prone to second hand smoke, it sure doesn’t mean we should take up smoking.

And, what with recent positive societal changes, we are much less prone to second hand smoke than 20 years ago!

Same could happen regarding spray drift potentially.

don’t take it as coming from a fanatic… 8)

[tom_sawyer]

@grainbelt

[quote=“Adam20”][quote=“tom sawyer”]I just heard that the number one source of dioxin (the most toxic substance known) in the US, comes from people burning trash in their burn barrels. Hard to avoid air.

Thats interesting. Do you have a source? Was it an article or something I could read?[/quote]

I dont think people burning trash in rural areas where it is allowed even comes close to large factories output that burn.

I burnt trash on a regular basis and unless your hunched over the burning barrel you dont have anything to worry about[/quote]
You’d think that but its not the case. Industrial boilers and electric generation units burn completely and use conditions that minimize dioxin formation. Burning trash with any chlorinated materials is the perfect environment for dioxin formation (400-700F with aromatic compounds and chlorine).

I’ll look for the reference, someone mentioned this at a recent conference I was at.

[tom_sawyer]

Here’s one, albeit a little dated. Several references on this page. The person who made the assertoin that burn barrels have overtaken municipal solid waste as #1, was quoting something a little more recent. But you see how large of a contributor burn barrels can be.

http://www.burnbarrel.org/

Heres one more recent one.

http://www.dioxinfacts.org/sources_tren ... rning.html

[shadetree]

So, burning trash to boil wort is a bad idea?

I was going to make a comment about stupid people burning household trash and then I remembered that yesterday we had two gondolas of stuff cleared out of an office area at work and found harddrives, electronics, paper, and cardboard (all stuff that everyone on the site should know that we recycle) mixed in with the trash. And these came from a product engineering area, so they ought to be smarter than that. Guess their laziness won out, though.

[chaz]

I wonder how much survives the kilning process?

I’ve thought about giving a sack a shot since I can get Great Western for about $10 more a sack. Their state specific Washington and Oregon non-Organic malt sound interesting as well for $5 more.

[tom_sawyer]

@Shadetree

So, burning trash to boil wort is a bad idea?

Great idea! Just leave out the plastic. You could even dry your spent grains and burn those when firing the next batch.

I get enough junk mail that I could almost heat my home on it along with the carbdoard boxes from NB.

[rookie_l_a]

If you feel better brewing with organic ingredients go ahead.
As one poster stated organic is too expensive for some brewers.
I’ve been a server at the North American Organic Beerfest in Portland the last two years and there is some good beer being poured, but if I hadn’t known ahead of time it was organic I would never have been able to tell the difference.

[brewsumore]

If you want to get that plastic-y flavor in your beer, it seems a lot easier to just brew with chlorinated water straight from the tap, rather than heat your kettle with burning trash. But then again, there’s nothing like the smell of styrene in the morning!

Check this link - it might change your mind about backyard trash barrel burning: http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/htmlpubs/ … page01.htm

[grainbelt]

[uote]
You’d think that but its not the case. Industrial boilers and electric generation units burn completely and use conditions that minimize dioxin formation. Burning trash with any chlorinated materials is the perfect environment for dioxin formation (400-700F with aromatic compounds and chlorine).

I’ll look for the reference, someone mentioned this at a recent conference I was at.[/quote]

I will take the testing I have seen from a family member over anything