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Pilsner LME boil time

I will be brewing an IPA that uses Pilsner LME. I’ve read a lot about boil times of 90 minutes for Pilsner malt to avoid dms. Does this apply to Pilsner LME and DME? I would assume the process of making the extract eliminates the dms problem but I’m not sure. Thanks for the help.

Pilsner extract does not need a 90 minute boil to prevent the formation of DMS in the wort as with grains. You do not want to boil with the kettle lid on though. The precursors to DMS can reform during a 60 minute boil if evaporation is not allowed.

I boil with the lid partially on the kettle to be able to reduce the heat but still maintain a good boil. I wipe the underside of the lid when condensation gets heavy. I did notice the corn taste of DMS on the paper towel used to wipe the lid when brewing my first Hefeweizen.

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This question comes up from time to time and I must admit I don’t know the answer. My thoughts:

  1. the extract is boiled to remove water and concentrate it which would help drive off dms
  2. brewers have not had issues with DMS utilizing late additions of extract to assist with color

With that said, you definitely don’t need to perform a 90 minute boil. You may need a 60 minute boil for hop extraction though.

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Thanks, do you concern yourself with condensation on the lid while chilling the wort after the boil? Do you cover during chilling?

I haven’t done a 90 minute boil with pilsner malt for 2 years. SInce I heard Denny say it’s a waste of time with todays grains. I use Avangard Best Malz Pilsen Malt and have had no issues with DMS in pilsners or any of the other lagers I use it in. If I wanted to spend more time on brew day I’d do a decoction or stepped mash before I’d spend an extra half hour boiling. Though some ‘purists’ believe you can’t replicate a german lager without decoction mash i’ve yet to do one.

Having said all that, your pils extract has already been boiled. Just boil as long as you need for your bitering hops.

Most of the time I am using an ice bath in the kitchen sink to cool the wort. I first fill the sink with cold tap water. The lid is partially off the kettle so I can move the wort with my boil spoon to accelerate cooling at the same time allowing heat to escape. Large volumes in the boil kettle may get a second cold tap water cooling before adding ice for the final chill.

After the boil I’m not concerned with DMS production.

Thanks for the advice. I usually brew in my garage, so I leave the lid on during chilling except to stir up a whirlpool every few minutes.

Thanks for the advice

So you say dms has more to do with the quality of the malt? Any recommendations other than what you already said you use?

My understanding is modern malting processes make extended boil times unnecessary.

I decided to reduce the boil time for pilsner malt based upon advice I got here in the forum like from this thread two years ago. Who does 90 min boils to reduce DMS when using Pilsner

Then about a year ago Brulosophy did a blog on it as well. exBEERiment | Boil Length: 30 Minutes vs. 90 Minutes In A Pale Lager | Brülosophy

As I said I’ve had great results with avangard pils. YMMV I’ve seen Denny’s evil czech pils recipe call for Rahr pils and he’s an advocate for the shorter boil.

Hmmmmm. This is an ongoing debate…I was trying to decide 60 vs 90 and came across a recent article (2015) from a BJCP judge who says he detects DMS in entries all the time. I decided to stick with the 90 out of an abundance of caution.

Do you have a link to the article?

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Yet, everybody has a different taste threshold, and their perceptions are their opinions. Sneezles61

After reading these posts 2 glaring questions come to mind. Why chill with the lid on? It will chill faster with it off. And @flars why do you taste the paper towel?

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Like I said, I brew outside. Where I live there is a lot of pollen and other debris floating through the air. The lid is only partially on because I have my spoon and wort chiller sticking out. I leave it partially covered to keep out as much pollen and such out of the wort. Brewing outside I can chill 6 gallons of wort in under 30 minutes. I use a chiller and ice bath.

That was just my shorthand typing style. I don’t like lengthy replies.
Should have said;
I had noticed the aroma of corn. I had previously read DMS precursors are cooked away during the processes of making DME and LME. So why is there an aroma of corn? I had to check with my tongue to confirm that it was corn. Further reading found an article that also suggested that DMS can form when using extracts. My tongue confirmed that it can happen. I did not chew and swallow though.

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My understanding was with extract you could boil your hops for 60 and only boil for 15 with Pilsner extract to keep it from caramelizing and darkening the finished product. Never thought DMS was a problem with extract.

The requested link to the article on DMS is

here
here

Good article but that doesn’t mention DME/LME at all. He’s simply suggesting the 90 min boil for Pilsner malt. Maybe his palates more refined than mine but I still haven’t tasted DMS in an all Pilsner malt beer boiled for 60 mins. Perhaps those individuals aren’t boiling it rigorously?

This is what I was thinking. With LME you can almost get away with mixing it with hot water. I didn’t think DMS was a factor with it. All of that work has been done by the manufacturer.

I have seen a few articles about boiling the hops for the normal amount of time for isomerization then only boil the extract for the last 15. Especially for a Pilsner style it keeps the color light. I don’t see the need for a 90 min boil with extract.

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