Just checking to see if anyone else has had this issue. I’m not getting any bottle bombs but it seems like no matter how I pour the bottle, cold glass, warm glass, pint or sniffer they all have tremendous amount of carbonation. I left it in the primary until it was completed based on gravity readings, and even an extra week before bottling. Used the normal amount of priming sugar like I do every batch. My first Slobber turned out bad due to high ferm temps and don’t recall the same thing happening with those. Is it possible my FG reading was off and the yeast was playing possum and once bottled it took off again?
The 1st obvious Qs will be: What was your FG? and How much and what type of sugar is your standard?and Batch prime or individual bottle prime? and Every bottle overcarbonated or just a few? and How long did you chill the bottles after they were primed? (D**N, guess I had more than 1 Q or 2)
Seems I get a few bottles each batch that are a little extra carbed. I have not had this issue the last half dozen batches as I’ve been doing a better job of mixing the sugar prior to bottle.
When I had the problem with a scottish ale, I just let the bottle sit open for a good 10 minutes before pouring. That helped and the extra temp helped the flavor of the beer in the glass as well.
I’d be interested to see if ALL of your bottles are overcarbed.
Cheers.
Well looking at my notes the FG was 1.016 and didn’t drop after 3 days or at bottling 1 week later. I use NB recomendation of 2/3 cup and normally have low to med carb with most of my beers. I’d say the first few bottles were right on par but that was of course at about the 2 week mark. I mixed the solution the same as always as well so don’t think it was a mixing issue. Right now they have been bottle conditioning since the end of January. I’ll have to try Grizz’s idea of waiting 10 min before I pour, I know I uncapped a bomber tonight and let it set for awhile and it didn’t seem to want to carbonate out of the bottle but as soon as it hit the glass. I have two cases left and I think another bomber will have to take a bottle out of each see if I get a different reaction to narrow down mix rate.
I think 2/3 a cup is too much. You can always use the calculator on the site here to dial it in further.
http://www.northernbrewer.com/priming-sugar-calculator/Using that, estimating your numbers at 60 degree beer, with 5 gallons, and American Brown Ale style, only about a half of a cup was necessary to carb that beer. If you’re beer was colder than that (i.e. after cold crashing), then much less sugar is needed.
Be careful with those temperature corrections… the temperature you want to use is the highest stable temperature the beer was at after active fermentation. The calculator approximates the amount of CO2 in solution based on temperature. The higher the temperature, the less CO2 can be dissolved in solution.
If you store your beer at 68F after active fermentation, you can use 68F to estimate how many volumes CO2 you have in the beer, which will be much less than if you never let it get over 60F. If you then cold crash it to 40F, you still only have the volumes of CO2 that were in the beer at 68F - it won’t re-absorb CO2 from the atmosphere. Unless you added new fermentables, there would be no additional CO2 being generated in the beer, so the amount is set based on how much remained after stabilizing at the highest temperature.
I guess I am confused :oops:
What’s all this talk about chilling beer to force CO2 back into solution? Does that only occur in bottles/kegs? I guess I just assumed that that could happen in a bucket or carboy with the headspace full of CO2 as well. Whoops! Certainly not the first time I’ve been wrong (it’s actually a lot)!
No worries! Couple things going on here, though. I’m not a believer in CO2 having to be reabsorbed during bottle conditioning, but I’ll try not to let that cloud my response. :mrgreen:
CO2 absorption is a function of both temperature and pressure. The higher the temperature, the lower capacity for the beer to hold CO2. With higher pressure, the capacity for beer to hold CO2 increases. In a fermenter, you have an open system, meaning the pressure in the system normalizes to the atmosphere around it. When temperature goes up, the capacity of the beer to hold CO2 decreases, so it comes out of solution and dissipates out through the airlock. You have an open container, so the overall quantity of CO2 is reduced. Lowering the temperature increases the capacity of the liquid to hold CO2, but without a source to create additional CO2, the amount going back into solution is negligible.
In a closed system, CO2 will still come out of solution with increased temperature, but will increase the pressure as well which will let the liquid hold more CO2. All the CO2 is trapped in the vessel, so when it is chilled, it will get forced back into suspension. When you bottle condition or force carb in a keg, you’re adding CO2 to the system, either through priming sugar and yeast activity or hooking it up to your cylinder and pressurizing it. Either way, you’re adding mass to the system, and the increased pressure (not lower temperature) forces it to absorb into the liquid. Lower temperature helps by further increasing the capacity of the liquid to hold CO2, but the higher pressure in the closed system is what is causing the CO2 to go back into solution.
Here’s what bugs me about saying you need to chill a bottle conditioned beer to get the CO2 in solution. The increased pressure from the production of CO2 is what is causing the CO2 to stay in solution, not the temperature drop. Chilling has a small effect and can help settle things down, but most of the CO2 is already in solution due to increased pressure in the container.
This part’s my opinion - the reason an unchilled bottle may gush as opposed to a chilled one is that you’re cold crashing it, and dropping particles out of suspension. The particles act as nucleation sites, so it more readily comes out of solution when you open the unchilled bottle due to the particles. How long do people normally cold crash a fermenter to drop particles? Usually 2-3 days, which is the same time people say to chill a bottle to prevent gushing.
Wow, that was wordy. Hope I don’t come across as a jerk - been reading engineering white papers all day! :cheers:
[quote=“Templar”]I think 2/3 a cup is too much. You can always use the calculator on the site here to dial it in further.
http://www.northernbrewer.com/priming-sugar-calculator/Using that, estimating your numbers at 60 degree beer, with 5 gallons, and American Brown Ale style, only about a half of a cup was necessary to carb that beer. If you’re beer was colder than that (i.e. after cold crashing), then much less sugar is needed.[/quote]
That might make sense as I believe all NB recipe papers say 2/3 by default, never considered (although I should have by reading keg forums) that different styles should have different mix rates. Put two bottles in today one from each box I have left and will see the results.
porkchop you certainly did not come off as a jerk! Lots of good info, thank you!
+1 on the excellent info!
I thought it was a little jerkish… where do you get off talkin’ to people like that! Just kiddin’ Porkchop.
Actually it was a very thorough explanation. To sum it up, chose the temp as the warmest the beer ever got as the most CO2 comes out of solution at that time.
Again, great explanation!
hee,hee porkchop. Yesterday I composed an answer and when I went to post it, the thread showed me your answer. I deleted mine… :cheers: It might be interesting to drag out my 40 year old Handbook of Chemistry and Physics to see how the partial pressure of CO2 varies with temperatures, but that sounds like way too much work. And I’m not sure I could even use that book anymore.
Nice answer!
:lol:
I’ve gotten a lot of good help on this forum, so in the couple of tiny areas where I can provide some feedback, I didn’t want to sound like too much of a curmudgeon. Buy hey, if Pietro can be the style guru, I’m happy to be the carbonation and headspace curmudgeon! :mrgreen:
