NEIPA bio-trans hopping process

steeler_d · March 16, 2021, 8:59pm

I’m on a binge of trying to make a good hazy and I suspect I have some sort of issue with my hopping routine. The results have been very astringent beyond just hop particulate in suspension, at least that is my assumption based on having a batch in the keg for 2 weeks now that tastes like bitter raw hops.

I’d like to know from folks who are turning out neipas with a reliably bright/soft/fruity flavor profile what exactly is your process for the dry hopping stage(s). How much, when, how long, and do you agitate/swirl the hops back into solution?

I have been adding at 3 days and at 7 days, both additions at 3-4 oz of the typical hops for style (mostly citra, mosaic, galaxy, a little simcoe and centennial in one batch too).

I have been using WY1318, which keeps a thick krausen with the hops floating, so I have been repeatedly swirling/shaking (under positive CO2) to get them temporarily suspended in solution.

Inadvertently posted in the uncategorized forum so apologies if you see this twice…

I have been lightly crashing the beer to about 45deg for 2 days before siphoning into the keg.

My going hypothesis is that I might need to stop the swirling and just let em float, that maybe I am getting more harshness by doing that.

FWIW, I have been starting at an OG of about 1.065, bittering to 20 IBU in the boil, and doing a 30 min. hopstand at 150deg with approx 6-8 oz. So I would be surprised if I am getting alot of hop isomerization in the hopstand to contribute to bitterness at that low of a temp.

Thanks for any advice!

squeegeethree · March 16, 2021, 9:38pm

London Ale III is generally considered good for NEIPAs because of its residual sweetness. It seems like dry-hopping best practices are changing every 6 months. Right now cold dry hopping is best practice. Adding at the end of fermentation and not bothering with those early bio-transformations is also current practice for many.
I think you need to look to the hops for what oils they have to contribute. Adding a high alpha acid hops are less important IMO. I also think focusing on 1 or 2 hops that are distinctive make a better beer than a melange of competing characteristics.

http://scottjanish.com/a-case-for-short-and-cool-dry-hopping/

voodoo_donut · March 16, 2021, 9:57pm

Interesting article…I read it but the counter didn’t click…so, hazy juicy IPAs are a shifting changing thing and the brewing practices for them are evolving over time.
My last NEIPA came out fine and I used a metric shite ton of Columbus…so there’s that …my notes (5/27/17 lol)say “excellent taste, no hint of oxidation or grassiness. Very juicy, orange/grapefruit juice, no bite/burn in back of throat. Still needs time on gas/1 1/2 weeks on CO2 thus far. Not much head, but decent carbonation by mouthfeel, is soft and ‘pillowy’.
Not sure what I would do differently.”

voodoo_donut · March 16, 2021, 10:18pm

This is a tough style to get exactly where you want it…thoughts:
-6-8 ounces during a hopstand is a lot( I did 3 oz) so that could be a factor …or not.
-I doubt the agitation is a factor
-Water chemistry?calcium chloride?

your post fermentation hopping is similar to mine except I did the second dry hop at 10 days

steeler_d · March 16, 2021, 10:29pm

water was approx 170 Chloride and 75 Sulfate.

hadn’t given the thought to my hopstand being excessive but who knows may so. I have not gotten any astringency from the pre-fermented wort but I guess there could be an additive effect if the hopstand was contributing enough polyphenols that the dry hop pushed over the edge later on.

Also interesting about changes in practice to post-ferm cool/cold dry hopping in this style. That’s basically just a standard dry hop for a regular IPA.

So, I have one going now that is just day 1 fermentation. I could skip the biotransformation step entirely. Or I could add in a bagged dry hop at high krausen and remove after just a day or two.

Seems like the polyphenols are both a blessing and a curse with this style.

voodoo_donut · March 16, 2021, 10:39pm

I really have to dig in and read more about the cold hopping/short contact time data…I am an old dog but I am still capable of learning new tricks…when I started discussing, early on, the brewing of NEIPAs I was roundly vilified/pilloried/mocked/ and some a hole even called NEIPAs and I quote “cabbage patch dolls (that will soon go away)” when I brought them up.
Well he’s gone and they’re still here.
Sorry for rant…I’ve had a few.

loopie_beer · March 16, 2021, 11:41pm

6-8oz of hops at whirlpool is a lot IMHO. Even at 150° ( I assume this is accurate) at 30 mins. The hops you mention usually have a higher AA% so that’s going to contribute, especially in addition to your boil hops. Either lower the whirlpool or lower your initial bittering charge and see what happens. Personally I would limit my boil hops first. Also, FWIW we just let those DH float and sink.
There’s a lot of info that indicates a diminished return on using too much DH. That’s supposedly 8g/L or about .28oz/gal. So that’s about 5 1/2 oz per 5gal.
In addition, these beers benefit from cold crashing to get those hop particles to settle completely out. And that’s difficult. Without that you’ll continue to get that hop burn which can be perceived as bitterness.

voodoo_donut · March 17, 2021, 2:57pm

That was exactly my concern…without the unique early dry hopping for NEIPAs, you will not end up with a hazy IPA. You will have a tropical fruit forward regular IPA, kind of like Sierra Nevada’s BIg Little Thing West Coast imperial IPA, if you use the hops typically employed for this style.