Negra Modelo vs Dos XXs amber?

Beer Recipe Design
1

Are they both vienna style lagers and if so, what are the differences.

I like both, but like the most interesting man in the world, I prefer XXs…and would love to make a clone. so, are their grainbills/hops/yeast vastly different and does anyone have an XXs recipe? I’ve got the NM recipe (and WLP 940 to pitch) that’s been floating around and may make it but it would be nice to actually attempt a XXs amber clone.

cheers

2

I also like Dos Equis Amber and once tried to make a version of it. I’d have to go back and check my notes to see what I did. I know I used WLP940, probably some Munich and then something like debittered black malt along with some amount of crystal to get the color without any roastiness. Then probably just one clean hop addition at the beginning of the boil because I don’t think it has any hop flavor or aroma in it. It’s pretty sweet, really. I don’t recall my version being right on but certainly in the spirit of the commercial version. I think Negro Modelo is darker and fuller where Dos Equis Amber is still full but the color is quite a bit lighter. Chocolate seems to be a popular ingredient when making NM but I’m not sure I’d use it to make Dos Equis Amber. I think both are “considered” Vienna Lagers.

Edit: I just received some pale chocolate and I wonder how that would play in a Dos Equis Amber clone.

3

Ken,

Once you find your notes, please post up…I definitely be interested in trying your XXs “clone.”

cheers

4

Okay, so I made this beer in May 2008 and this is just the way I envisioned attacking this recipe. This made a nice beer, very much in the spirit of Dos Equis Amber Lager but this was before I was paying attention to things like water composition, pH and all of that so God knows if I would be able to make it better now. I didn’t even have good temp control back then… I was using a swamp cooler. Anyway, this is what I made:

[b]Dos Equis Amber Lager

5 lbs German Pilsner Malt
3 lbs Vienna Malt 4°L
1 lb flaked corn
8 ounces Crystal 120°L
4 oz Belgian CaraMunich
1.25 oz Hersbrucker pellets 3.3% for 60 mins
.50 oz Hersbrucker pellets 3.3% for 20 mins
White Labs 940 Mexican Lager Yeast

OG: 1.049, FG: 1.012, IBU: 22, SRM: 11, ABV: 4.8%[/b]

5

Looks delicious!!!

thanks.

edit:

mash temp?
3-4 week primary?
4-6 week lager at 34F?

:cheers:

6

[quote=“StormyBrew”]Looks delicious!!!

thanks.

edit:

mash temp?
3-4 week primary?
4-6 week lager at 34F?

:cheers: [/quote]
I would probably mash 151-152° and for 90 mins. I might primary for 2-3 weeks depending on how things were going and then… yeah, maybe 4-6 weeks or 3-6 weeks of cold lager phase should work. If you make it, please let me know how it comes out. You know, I was just out with some buds and drank a few of these and thought of our conversation here. It’s just not a very hoppy beer so I would watch for things like ultra-high chlorides in the water, a higher-than-suggested mash temp, old hops, low carb or anything that could throw the balance further to the malty/sweet side. That may be why I added the 20-min addition of hops… just to make sure nothing unsavory happened to the balance. Good luck.

7

Ken,

I will brew this soon and I usually take copious amounts of notes during a new-brew session. So, I’ll document the hell out of this one and let you know how it turns out.

I don’t have any Hersbrucker so do you have substitute recommendation or should I pick up some at my LHBS. FWIW, I do have: Uk Fuggle, Styrian Golding, EKG, Ger. Hallertau, Ger. Spalt, Ger. Magnum, Czech Saaz, Perle, and Cascade on hand.

bob

8

I think the Spalt, Hallertau or Saaz would be great. You could also bitter with Magnum and add one of the other three later in the boil but I added Magnum late in the boil once and did not care for what I tasted. No need to go get Hersbrucker… I just happened to have it. Cheers.

9

:cheers:

10

I just brewed a really tasty Vienna. I read as much as I could find about traditional Vienna lager, and came up with this with some modern malts too. I am always disappointed in Dos XX and Negro Modelo because of the adjuncts. The malt flavor fades so quickly. My version is very refreshing and still has character. For 10 gallons:

15 Lbs Vienna malt (weyermann)
3 Lbs Pils malt (weyermann)
1 Lb Cara Vienne
1 Lb Aromatic
3 Oz Czech Saaz (use 20-25 IBU of a noble hop)
1/2 Oz Saaz flavor
1/2 Oz Saaz Aroma
Wyeast 2124 Bohemian Lager
O.G. 1.050 T.G. 1.013
I did a small decoction mash because I did not hit my temps with boiling water alone. I did rests at 122 (10-15 min), 148 (20 min) and 158 (1 hr.) I fermented at 48 degrees for 2 weeks and did a diacetyl rest for 2 days before bringing the temp down to 48 again. I kegged it and it tasted good with 3 weeks of lagering, and it just keeps getting better at week 5.

11

Hi
I can say that the XX Amber is a lighter lager (%alcohol), than the Negra Modelo. Colour is very similar. Maybe the XX is slightly lighter. Its more a vienna lager like the Indio and the 4% victoria.
Negra Modelo is classed as a munich bock these days. And it has a much more stabil creamy head than all other mexican beers. More adjunct in Dos XX. I really dont remember the % alcohol, since it was at least 2 years since I had one. Hop bills I dont remember at all. Its more mainstream than Indio, but very alike. Indio is more complex.
To compare Negra Modelo (modelos top of the line) with XX is not right. It should be compared instead with Cuautemoc´s NocheBuena that is their top of the line…(one of them now, since they have bohemia weissen and bohemia chocolate stout on their seasonal agenda)

The hard thing here in sweden is to find the right hops for amarican (mexican) beers. Even the noble hops that are used in the mexican beers are grown in the US, and they dont taste the same as the noble german.
I really really want to brew clones of Noche Buena and Bohemia Clasica. I think the hops are much the same. And if we get the right hops for the other beers, maybe we can find out the hops for these…

Negra Modelo and victoria is Modelo brewery and XX, Indio,Bohemia, and Noche is cuautemoc… Just for the record if someone is confused

12

I brewed this several years ago with the intent of just brewing a vienna lager, but it tasted pretty close to Dos XXs to me.
three gallons, O G 1.054, IBUs 24
3 lbs. pilsner malt
2 lbs. vienna malt
1 lb. munich 8 malt
6 ozs. melanoiden malt
6 ozs. caravienne malt
1/2 oz. g. tradition @6.5% for 45 minutes
3/8 oz sterling @ 5% for 15 minutes
pinch irish moss for 15 minutes
WLP820
4 ozs. corn sugar to prime
mash at 151 for 45 minutes
first stage, 2 weeks at 52
second stage 4 weeks at 36
2 weeks at room temp to bottle condition

13

I know this is a an old thread now but any updates on the success of brewing something close to a Dos Equis Amber?

Ken? Stormy brew?

14

[quote=“Lovenbeer”]I know this is a an old thread now but any updates on the success of brewing something close to a Dos Equis Amber?

Ken? Stormy brew?[/quote]

I have been brewing Jamil’s Vienna lately… probably 3 times in the past year or 2. Jamil’s Vienna is not Dos Equis Amber but it occurred to me that a dialed-down version could get you very close. There is a thread I started HERE

which outlines what I did. One thing that stood out to me was the use of dehusked carafa III. This is a lovely malt that adds color and complexity but not roasty flavors in small doses. The Munich 10 and the 1¼ ounces of carafa is what made all of that color. Yet the beer is very clean-tastying and not roasty. You could easily add just a little less of the carafa and maybe dial down the hops to where Dos Equis Amber would be. Also, Jamil’s recipe is supposed to be 1½ ounces of bittering hops and ½ oz flavor but I wanted less bitterness and more flavor so I adjusted it to 1¼ ounces early and ¾ ounces later. I would probably use WLP940 or the Wyeast 2005 Mexican lager yeast (which is no longer available… it’s a temporary strain) for the yeast. If I were to attack this again, that’s how I would do it. When I was drinking Jamil’s Vienna, I thought to myself that a slightly lighter version would create more of a Mexican Vienna like Dos Equis. Cheers.

EDIT:

I would probably do something like this:

[b]3 lbs German Pilsner
3 lbs Munich 10L
3 lbs Vienna
1-2 ounces German Dehusked Carafa III (sometimes called Carafa Special)
1 ounce Hallertau @ 4.5% for 60 mins
½ ounce Hallertau @ 4.5% for 10 mins
White Labs 940 Mexican Lager yeast

OG: 1.051, FG: 1.012, IBU: 23, SRM: 12, ABV: 4.9%[/b]

Random thoughts: I would probably mash around 150° but systems vary so use your judgment. I would probably try use water that did not have a lot of sulfate. Dos Equis Amber is a very soft beer and it doesn’t come across with that sulfate crispness. Some is fine but not overpowering. You could use some amount of corn in the recipe and it’s my guess that Dos Equis could have some since it’s cheap, locally available and often found in Mexican beers, light or dark. Use a pound of corn and take off a pound of the pilsner, maybe. Also, the Carafa is sneaky. 2 ounces would probably be too dark and 1 ounce might be lighter than Dos Equis Amber. This is where I would start. If you think you want it hoppier, giddy up. Darker? Go for it. It’s a nice style and one that is hard to find as made well. Sometimes you see a Vienna Lager with a bunch of crystal malt in it which is not traditional. Good luck.

15

Thanks Ken. I actually picked up the ingredients that you listed back in February of 2012 with the picture. I am brewing 10 gallons tomorrow so I will let you know how it turns out! :cheers:

16

Good luck with it and happy brewing.