Looking for a Amber Lager Yeast

[cyberdiver]

So I am trying to build a beer that that is a bit of a English Bitter Amber Lager
It should be Malty, sweet, with a bit of a dry grainy after taste. I having trouble settling on a lagering yeast for it. Alot of the yeast I find that kind of fit the profile or more ale related.

So was hoping to get some recommendation of a lager yeast that might fit what I am shooting for.
5 Gal Extract Recipe so far:

.125 lb Biscuit Malt grain
.75lb 40L Carmel Malt grain
.25lb 60L Carmel Malt grain
.38lb Pale Choco Malt grain
2lbs Amber Dry Extract
6.6 Lbs Maris Otter Malt.
1 oz 9% Alpha Acid Bittering Hop boil 60 mins (NB Hops?)
1tsp Irish Moss at 15min boil
1oz UK Fuggles at 30 min
1 oz UK Fuggles Hops at 15 min boil
1/2 oz Ahtanum Hops at 5 min boil.
Beersmith current indicates a SOG of 1.047

WY2206
Edited for current recipe.

[brew_cat]

2124 sounds good. The first 2 are ale yeast. Not really sure what your looking to make. I like lagers myself and often take one of my ale recipes and pith a lager yeast to them. Always an enjoyable beer. Never used the 2124 but do love Bavarian 2206

[cyberdiver]

Thanks for the input I looking at the 2206 now sounds like something I might be looking for.
Yeah the first two were the recommend replacements for wy1338, but I think the 1338 was the recommend yeast for getting that lagering taste in warms climates where you could not truly lager at. and came up in my searches as I was deciding on ingredients but I wanted a true lager that does not add hops or fruitiness to it.

Thinking I might try that 2206 first and if I need to tweak things then next go around try the 2124. and mix up the malts.

[cyberdiver]

What is the ideal lagering time? I was thinking 30 days for a total of 6 weeks tell I keg? Only made one other true lager and it was an oktoberfest which spent 3 months lagering. How does one decide on lagering time? I see recipes that vary with that.

[brew_cat]

The important thing about using the lager yeast is the first week or two of fermentation. Low and slow for the first 2 weeks. Can you control your fermentation temps

[cyberdiver]

Yes.

[brew_cat]

I do my lagers over the winter and store them in the garage which stays in the 50s. I usually let them lager a month or two then into the fridge to carb and lager some more at around 40deg for 2 or 3 weeks. Then I tap and drink . It actually is lagering while it's in the kegorator. Just keeps getting better. My Ofest make in March and keep it in the cellar until September temp range 50-70 so that's 6 months. So to answer your question 2-6 months.

[sneezles61]

Gee whiz Brew Cat, you have self control... Mine, its done fermenting ,into the keezer, where all my brews age.... for a short time! Then down the gullet! Sneezles61

[brew_cat]

Not self control .I just brew more than I can drink. Problem is I'm out of lagers except for that Ofest.

[voodoo_donut]

A lot of the British yeasts tend to give a fruity ester. For a non-estery dry lager, try WLP 802.

[sneezles61]

I had a sample of the Alaskan amber ale today... It was clean... very little malt tone... The best example I had of Amber Ale was from Flars... That one I'd pay the going rate and not be critical.. Sneezles61

[cyberdiver]

So its been 10 days since I pitched. Not happy with it but it did not come out bad, just not what I was expecting. It had a med dry taste, much drier then I wanted, and no bitterness like I wanted. I was actually surprised it turned out as I thought I mucked the fermentation.. I made a cider and the lager on the same day and thought I had the 2206 fermenting temp wrong. As I barely had any krausen. So I was expecting the worst. Undecided on what to do with it. SG went from 1.042 to 1.009 after 10 days, will monitor for the next week and decide if I go ahead and lager it. In the meant time I whipping up a new batch with more hops and change to the grains. First time around I used 8 oz of biscuit malts reducing that to 2 oz, adding 4oz of crisp pale chocolate. Leaving the 40L Cyrstal at 12 oz but adding 6 oz of 60L Cyrstal. Increasing my bittering hop to 1.125 oz, and increasing the fuggles to 2 oz. Also increased the LME and DME about 1.5 lbs to up the OG. If I read beer smith right my estimated OG should be about 1.055. But sometimes I not sure if I reading the right field in beersmith when it comes to the estimate OG. But we will see what this batch is like.

[brew_cat]

That's a pretty quick fermentation what temperature did you ferment at. I wouldn't judge it until it's carbonated and lagered a bit. I've misjudged young beer often.

[sneezles61]

I agree with brew cat, CO2 adds the sharpness/edge in the background that can make a so so brew actually shine... Sneezles61

[cyberdiver]

At 67deg, the 2206 says to 65-72 (back of package) and that you can go lower. my previous lager Oktoberfest was at 58deg and then slow lowered to 44 after the primary. So I target 67 for primary with the 2206 and then intended to slow bring it down to 44.

[cyberdiver]

After re-reading some things on the net and in "how to brew" I wonder if my mistake was to not drop the temp below 56 after signs of fermentation I miss that tidbit. I thought the optimal range of the 2206 was 65-72. but the website says 46-56 which is where my confusion came from.

[cyberdiver]

Sneezels61, I was thinking I would keep it until after its lagered and then decide on kegging. Hmm, I might need a 3rd keg, unless the family drinks the cider quickly.

[cyberdiver]

So new batch is brewed, still need to pitch, waiting on fermentor to drop from 76 to below 72. Damn city tap water here in New Mexico is not buried deep enough it gets warm during the summer and I ran out of ice trying to cool the water to be added. Wort chiller got it 80, but could not get any lower then that with it. but it is the peak of our hot season.

So my new batch had a nice malty taste with a hint of caramel and chocolate, then some bitterness, and some florals. Much better this time. Can't want to taste the wort on the next weekend when I pull sample for SG. OG was 1.047 corrected. Going to double check the accuracy of my hydro this week as its been awhile.

[brew_cat]

You should rethink what your doing and use an ale yeast. An ale yeast at 65 will produce a very clean tasting beer IMO. You can still lager an ale. You have to work with what you got

[cyberdiver]

Why, NM temps? I brought the wort down to under 70 in my cooler then pitched the yeast. My only issues with temps had to do with the tap water, I was surprised at how warm it was or I would have chilled water sooner in the cooler, I also underestimated the boil off. Was about 1.25 Gals short on already cool water.

This morning the wort temp was 64, this evening when i got home from work it was gurgling and had a nice kruasen going, so I reduced the temps on my cooler to bring it down 56, by end of week I will have it at 50 and if need be I will reduce it if the temp raises too much during the process. This was the process Wyeast recommended in their FAQ #16.

Now that being side in future I will use 2 packs or a starter and pitch below 58. But I was always under the impression the fermentation range given on the package was the optimal. But after re-reading the 2206 pack I realized my mistake as it simply said to pitch it between 64-72, while the website states the optimal ferment range is 46-58, which is why I was concerned about the previous batch attempt because I had a disparity in ranges.

So lesson learned at a cost of an additional $73 in supplies to redo it this weekend. I have done the ale yeast process in the past but that was before I built my cooler (The Mother of All Fermentation Chillers by mylofiore).