Late LME Addition and Late Hopping

Extract/Partial Mash Brewing
1

I’ve heard that extract brews tend to have a “twangy” taste to it so I’m thinking of doing late LME additions versus the 60 minute boil. Also, I like the bitterness from late hop additions (hop bursting?) versus the bitterness from a 60 min hop boil. So instead of adding bittering hops at 60 min, add them later (may need to add more to adjust for identical IBU) in the boil at 20min, 15min, 5min, and at flameout.

Since I’m doing a late LME addition along with a late hopping schedule. Is there any problem with just doing a 20 minute boil for extract kits?

For example:

  1. Get your water boiling
  2. Add all the LME and hops for the 20min boil
  3. Add hops at 15min
  4. Add hops at 5 min
  5. Add hops at flameout
  6. Proceed as you normally would
2

There is no value in a 60 minute boil if you are hop bursting. As soon as your LME is boiling you can begin your hop clock. If you are doing a full volume boil, keep in mind that you will need to adjust your beginning volume to reflect the reduced boil-off.

I’ve had great success with late hop additions. They work very well with extract brewing. I’ve also had good results using all DME rather then LME only or a DME/LME combo. LME is too easy to burn if you become impatient when adding it to boiling water. For that reason I suggest adding before the water boils and sturring often.

3

[quote=“SU Brewery”]There is no value in a 60 minute boil if you are hop bursting. As soon as your LME is boiling you can begin your hop clock. If you are doing a full volume boil, keep in mind that you will need to adjust your beginning volume to reflect the reduced boil-off.

I’ve had great success with late hop additions. They work very well with extract brewing. I’ve also had good results using all DME rather then LME only or a DME/LME combo. LME is too easy to burn if you become impatient when adding it to boiling water. For that reason I suggest adding before the water boils and sturring often.[/quote]

With all DME or a DME/LME, does the DME need a full 60 min boil?

4

No, you just need to get through the hot-break and then you can begin your hop additions.

5

This is an excellent post/question, since I’ve considered asking the same lol

I usually add all the Malt extract at 60, even on high OG kits. Was thinking about doing half at 60 and the rest closer to burn out to decrease that “kit taste.” I’ve been making some good beer…just hoping to get to some great stuff.

Also, should I try boiling at lower temps?

Cheers! :cheers:

6

[quote=“LT Zod”]This is an excellent post/question, since I’ve considered asking the same lol

I usually add all the Malt extract at 60, even on high OG kits. Was thinking about doing half at 60 and the rest closer to burn out to decrease that “kit taste.” I’ve been making some good beer…just hoping to get to some great stuff.

[/quote]

The benefit of adding extract later is there less mailliard reactions causing darkening of the wort. Keep in mind that adding extract later will increase your bittering of your early hop additions.

I’m not sure you can. Boiling point is boiling point. If you are considering not boiling at all, you shouldn’t consider that. This could result in increased amounts of DMS in your beer (creates off flavors of “cooked corn” and “vegetables”). I also remember reading that the temperature of the isomerization of alpha acids from your hops occurs around 180 so if you are heating below that you would see a reduction in the bittering effects of your early hop additions.

7

Try to achieve a slow (low) boil. Extracts, especially LME, burn easily. This will yield a higher SRM and could impact flavor.

I don’t like to add LME to a boil as it tends to sit at the bottom of the pot. If you add LME to a boiling wort be prepared to stir the pot vigorously and often.

Adding DME after hops have already been added is tricky too, because if you have a boil over your hops and the acids will travel out of the pot on the foam.

It’s best to add extracts before the pot begins to boil and only boil them as long as necessary to extract the acids (bitterness/flavor/aroma) from the hops.

8

Thanks everyone! This is some great info!

9

Maltybeer and LT Zod-

Sorry to get a little off topic, but it seems like you’re both wanting to avoid that extract “twang.” I know exactly what you mean. You can experiment with late extract additions and hop bursting all you want, but my advice is to try a few partial mashes. Don’t get me wrong - I love all the extract batches I’ve made - but my beer from partial mashing literally tastes like a microbrew I’d buy from the liquor store. There’s some sort of “magic” that happens from the mash, and it can give you flavor, body and mouthfeel that I believe simply isn’t attainable by just steeping specialty grains.

PM is not difficult or expensive, either. You save a little money on ingredients by using less extract, and the only additional equipment you’ll need is a large mesh grain bag ($5.50) and a kitchen colander big enough to rest on the rim of your brewpot. And my apologies for getting off topic a little, but PMing is the best thing I’ve done for my beer since controlling fermentation temperature, so I’m serious that it’s worth a shot.

10

Doesn’t that only pertain to mashing with lighter colored grains? I would think the LME and DME (made from LME) would have already been boiled 60-90 min, so it would have gotten ridden of most of the DMS?

11

[quote=“BrewBum”]Maltybeer and LT Zod-

Sorry to get a little off topic, but it seems like you’re both wanting to avoid that extract “twang.” I know exactly what you mean. You can experiment with late extract additions and hop bursting all you want, but my advice is to try a few partial mashes. Don’t get me wrong - I love all the extract batches I’ve made - but my beer from partial mashing literally tastes like a microbrew I’d buy from the liquor store. There’s some sort of “magic” that happens from the mash, and it can give you flavor, body and mouthfeel that I believe simply isn’t attainable by just steeping specialty grains.

PM is not difficult or expensive, either. You save a little money on ingredients by using less extract, and the only additional equipment you’ll need is a large mesh grain bag ($5.50) and a kitchen colander big enough to rest on the rim of your brewpot. And my apologies for getting off topic a little, but PMing is the best thing I’ve done for my beer since controlling fermentation temperature, so I’m serious that it’s worth a shot.[/quote]

I’ve started doing 3 gallon batches of BIAB and so far the process is not that much more difficult.
Though you do have to be particular about the mineral content and alkalinity of your water and mash pH.

I still have 2 extract kits from NB and was planning on doing the late extract addition along with the hop bursting to get a better beer, hopefully.

12

Doesn’t that only pertain to mashing with lighter colored grains? I would think the LME and DME (made from LME) would have already been boiled 60-90 min, so it would have gotten ridden of most of the DMS?[/quote]

I can’t say for certain but if you do a google search on “extract and DMS” there are a number of threads where people say they have or know someone who has experienced DMS with extract. One said they boiled with the lid on and it reeked of corn and cabbage. So it is possible. The only way to know for certain is to learn how the extract in question is produced. I’d do it merely for the sake of sanity but this does kind of bring up other questions about the possible presence of DMS with late extract additions due to not spending the time boiling it out.

13

Doesn’t that only pertain to mashing with lighter colored grains? I would think the LME and DME (made from LME) would have already been boiled 60-90 min, so it would have gotten ridden of most of the DMS?[/quote]

I can’t say for certain but if you do a google search on “extract and DMS” there are a number of threads where people say they have or know someone who has experienced DMS with extract. One said they boiled with the lid on and it reeked of corn and cabbage. So it is possible. The only way to know for certain is to learn how the extract in question is produced. I’d do it merely for the sake of sanity but this does kind of bring up other questions about the possible presence of DMS with late extract additions due to not spending the time boiling it out.[/quote]

I found an article that had some info on this:

http://byo.com/stories/issue/item/1101- ... lt-extract

[quote]To Boil or Not to Boil

Given that malt extract has already gone through a brewing cycle, many brewers have questioned the amount of additional processing that must be done to successfully brew beer from extract. Specifically, the question of whether worts made from extract require boiling often arises. Understanding their manufacturing process and the main goals of boiling malt extract provides the answer.

There are 5 main “-ations” that brewers are concerned with when boiling their wort or concentrated worts. These are:

Carmelization (of sugars)
Volatilization (of DMS precursors)
Sanitation
Coagulation (of proteins) and
Isomerization (of hops)

Carmelization and Volitization:

Brewing- grade extract has already undergone a kettle boil and extensive volatilization. Beneficial colors and flavors have been developed from carmelization and Maillard reactions in the kettle boil. Any volatile off aroma or flavors from the grain or DMS precursors have been removed. If the extract is diluted to wort and held at boiling temperatures without proper additional volatilization, additional precursors can be generated. In general, worts from malt extract do not need to be boiled to remove DMS precursors. However, if they are boiled, the boil must be vigorous enough to remove these precursors as more are created when wort is held hot.
Coagulation:

All brewing-grade manufacturers remove hot break from their malt extracts. Some manufacturers also remove the cold break.
Sanitation:

Though not a sterile product, brewing grade malt extract has gone through a boiling step and has a very low microbial count. It exists as a low water activity product, not permitting growth or spoilage. Contamination is normally so low that simple pasteurization of wort at 160 ºF (71 °C) for 2–5 minutes is enough to provide reasonable assurance of an uncontaminated finished product. Thus, if using a hopped malt extract or hop extracts, brewers can get away with very short or nonexistent boils, depending upon hop aroma desired and confidence in yeast and sanitation.
Isomerization:

Boiling is necessary to isomerize the alpha acids in hops in order to make them soluble. If you are brewing with unhopped malt extract, you will need to boil your hops in wort. However, you can withhold a sizeable amount of your malt extract and add it late in the boil or at the end of the boil. [/quote]

14

After reading this:

It makes me wonder if it’s better to add extract with 10 minutes left in the boil than flameout. It also makes me question is just “stirring real good” is enough to remove the precursors. Interesting…