Lager and hop substitutions

rambus · January 26, 2012, 1:24pm

Hello folks, I’m attempting to clone a local favorite and need help. The beer is a pilsner with heavy New Zealand Southern Cross hop additions.

First off, I have no experience with lagers. I don’t know what base recipe to use, Czech, Bavarian, American. The beer is light bodied and malty with a crisp dry finish, not very alcoholic (6.5-7%), but blends well with the high alpha from these tasty hops.

Second, I cannot find Southern Cross hops in small quantities. Is there a suitable substitution?

Thanks in advance for info or comments!

Rambus

hamiltont · January 26, 2012, 2:59pm

It doesn’t appear to have any true substitutes. Looking at the description & comparing that to the descriptions other hops there are quite a few that may come close. Combinations might be the trick. (list below) As far as bittering goes Magnum may be your safest bet. Whatever you end up doing please let us know what your results are. Cheers!!!

Flavor/Aroma Hops:
Ahtanum
Brewer’s Gold
Cascade
Perle
Saaz
Sterling
Willamette

dobe12 · January 26, 2012, 3:11pm

What’s the name of the beer?

rambus · January 26, 2012, 3:23pm

Olde Hickory Brewery Southern Cross Pilsner

dobe12 · January 26, 2012, 3:29pm

COMMERCIAL DESCRIPTION
A hoppy pilsner made with hops sourced from New Zealand. Malt: German Pils, Wheat Hops: Pacifica, NZ Pacific Jade, NZ Pacific Gem, and Nelson Sauvin

ABV 5.75%
IBU 60

rambus · January 26, 2012, 3:38pm

[quote=“dobe12”]COMMERCIAL DESCRIPTION
A hoppy pilsner made with hops sourced from New Zealand. Malt: German Pils, Wheat Hops: Pacifica, NZ Pacific Jade, NZ Pacific Gem, and Nelson Sauvin

ABV 5.75%
IBU 60[/quote]
Nice, amazing what one finds when one “looks” for it… All seriousness aside, thanks for making me feel stupid :oops:

dobe12 · January 26, 2012, 3:44pm

[quote=“Rambus”][quote=“dobe12”]COMMERCIAL DESCRIPTION
A hoppy pilsner made with hops sourced from New Zealand. Malt: German Pils, Wheat Hops: Pacifica, NZ Pacific Jade, NZ Pacific Gem, and Nelson Sauvin

ABV 5.75%
IBU 60[/quote]
Nice, amazing what one finds when one “looks” for it… All seriousness aside, thanks for making me feel stupid :oops: [/quote]

:lol: No problem! I was going to start building the recipe for you but I thought that would be a little condescending.

If you like hoppy pilsners try and find DFH My Antonia. It’s an awesome beer. I just brewed a clone (or what I hope will be a clone) this past weekend.

http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/10099/60078

rambus · January 26, 2012, 3:48pm

[quote=“dobe12”][quote=“Rambus”][quote=“dobe12”]COMMERCIAL DESCRIPTION
A hoppy pilsner made with hops sourced from New Zealand. Malt: German Pils, Wheat Hops: Pacifica, NZ Pacific Jade, NZ Pacific Gem, and Nelson Sauvin

ABV 5.75%
IBU 60[/quote]
Nice, amazing what one finds when one “looks” for it… All seriousness aside, thanks for making me feel stupid :oops: [/quote]

:lol: No problem! I was going to start building the recipe for you but I thought that would be a little condescending.

If you like hoppy pilsners try and find DFH My Antonia. It’s an awesome beer. I just brewed a clone (or what I hope will be a clone) this past weekend.

http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/10099/60078[/quote]

I appreciate the help! I can eat and wipe my butt and I’ve been doing it myself for almost a year… Seriously, any help is welcome. As I said, I have zero knowledge brewing lagers.

dobe12 · January 26, 2012, 4:10pm

Well, you’ll need to ferment cold. Somewhere between 45-55F depending on which yeast you go with. And when fermentation is done (2-3weeks) you’ll need to lager it even colder. Somewhere around 35-40F for as many weeks as you can stand. I like to lager for 8-10weeks. The longer it sits at that temp, the smoother it gets. If you can’t ferment that low, try another yeast like Wyeast 2112 California Lager. It can ferment warmer in the upper 50’s - lower 60’s. You still want to stay at the lower end of the temp range, but it will keep lager characteristics up to about 65F.

Also, when using Pilsner malt you want to do a longer boil of about 90min. And if you don’t know about diacetyl rest’s, you should do some research. It’s just a matter of raising the fermentation temps into the mid 60’s during the end of fermentation so the yeast can get rid of the diacetyl. My usual practice is to ferment a lager around 50F for 7-10days and then slowly raise the temp 2-3degrees a day until it’s at 65F, then keep it there for a day or two. Then drop it down to 35F to lager for a few weeks. You’ll need a fermentation fridge and temp control for this. Or you could just let it sit at room temps for a few days near the end of fermentation. A lot of info, I know, but lagers are more work than ales. But oh so worth it!