1st Belgian: Number 8 from NB. 1.084 OG. Pitched two Activators of 1762, no starter, didn’t aerate w/ O2. Kept it around 70F. Rather strong alcohol warming feeling, but not anything like Rocheford like the yeast is from.
2nd Belgian: Chimay Red clone. 1214 in 1qt starter, didn’t aerate w/ O2. 1.070 OG. 70F ferment. Much better Belgian character. Fruity and phelolic like the clone it’s supposed to be like. No warming alcohol/solventy flavors. Still would have liked it to “pop” more.
3rd Belgian: Number 8 again, w/ a little more base. 1.090 OG, two Activators of 1762 in a 2qt starter using stir plate and oxygenate for 2 min before pitching. Could have sworn this one would be on the mark but has the same flavors as the first one, just a little more pronounced. Same 70F ferment.
4th Belgian: Modified Chimay Red clone. One Activator of 3522 in 1.5qt starter w/ intermittent swirling. I pitched at 75F and let it take off. Went over the 79F mark on the temp strip. The whole living room smelled excellent, like bananas and bubble gum. When I taste it though it is right back to that alcohol/solvent/dark fruit business. Nowhere close to where I was expecting this yeast to be like. Since this is a McChouffe yeast I was figuring something close but no cigar.
So, any hints from the Belgian pros? I know 1, 2, and 4 were underpitched, and maybe 3 depending on original yeast quality. Could this be my issue that’s restraining the real Belgian “pop” I’m after?
you can change the settings to quarts. Be sure to add the date of the yeast on the production date in the top right of the calculator. if you swirl the starter a few times a day you can choose the “intermediate shaking” option.
One option that it appears you may not have tried is to pitch at a cooler wort temp, say 65F, and after 48 hours or so, allow the temp to rise into the 70’s. This may help with the harsh alcohol character you described.
I have had great results with the belgians I have made (typically saisons, BPAs, and BGSA’s) by employing two methods, one mentioned above:
-ramping up temp. Pitch in the mid-60’s, let the temp rise to aid full attenuation but restrain/prevent fusels. If you don’t have temp control, this can be a pain in the neck. 70 is a bit warm, especally during the early phases. Mid-high 60’s for the first 48 hours might restrain the fusels/heat a bit.*
-Jamil advocates getting your pitch of yeast grown to the right cell count (approximate obviously unless you have a lab) THEN, on the morning of your brewday, get a small starter going with the pitch so the pitch of yeast is active. As raised above, overpitching in Belgians (or any beerwhere the yeast is the star of the show) can reduce the desirable phenolics (probably the elusive ‘pop’ you are describing) because there is not enough yeast GROWTH once pitched.
Also consider mash temp. I mash saisons @ 148-49, and many I know have had success with low(er) mash temps on all belgian-style ales to keep their yeast eating and happy.
*you sound like you like to make these styles of ales. Have you read Brew Like a Monk? It seems most of the Trappist producers are using almost identical grain/hop bills, but manipulating their yeast differently with temp raises at different points in the ferment. While the strain differ SLIGHTLY, it would essentially equate to the difference between Chico and Pacman stateside, which are likely negligible. Temp control (chest freezer + temp controller) is a great (in my mind, necessary) investment for any homebrewer.
[quote=“Pietro”]It seems most of the Trappist producers are using almost identical grain/hop bills, but manipulating their yeast differently with temp raises at different points in the ferment.[/quote]And you need to remember that the temps they use are not going to produce the same results for the homebrewer because we are fermenting much smaller volumes. So you need to drop the BLAM temps at least a couple of degrees as a starting point, see how it turns out, then adjust.
I remember reading somewhere in Blam about oxygen starving the yeast.
Sounds cruel, you would want to get your wort into the fermenter without adding as much oxygen as possible. That would really be stressfull and force a lot of compounds out of them.
I’d like to try it on a 5% blonde to see what could be gained.
I think proper oxygenation is critical, especially in bigger brews like you mentioned. “Underpitching” by 10 or 20% can help bring out the character of the yeast as the characteristic phenolics are produced early on while the yeast are replicating. Starting cooler is good advice (mid 60’s), but I’ve had great luck with my Belgians letting them rise in temperature on their own. I had a Saison hit 90 degrees and I gave a bottle to a former AHA beer judge and said it was excellent… Also, if you have the patience age them more. I’ve been similarly critical of my own brews in the past and have been amazed at what an extra month or two in the bottle or keg does to the flavor…
I think what I’m gonna do over the holidays is brew this same beer one more time, but switch only to 1214 since that provided the closest to the “pop” I’m looking for, pitch at 65F and keep it there for 24hrs, then move the bucket upstairs and leave it alone until it’s done.
Lower gravity blonds/trappist table beers (1.045-55) I ferment at 65-68 for a couple of days and then let the temp rise.
Big beers over 1.070, I ferment cool for at least a week, and then let them rise to finish out.
Saisons ferment great at 90, but I usually pitch them at 65-70 and let them rise after a couple of days.
Some of these yeasts will blow out the top of the carboy so I usually only fill them halfway. Your beers will not ferment if the yeast is outside of the carboy.
Strong beers usually need time to age. My strong dark was not very good a year ago, but the bottles that I stored cool are fantastic. Unfortunately, I did not like the beer very much and left most of it in a warm closet where it oxidized. I learned my lesson.
[quote=“Mattbastard”]Thanks everyone. Good pointers all around
I think what I’m gonna do over the holidays is brew this same beer one more time, but switch only to 1214 since that provided the closest to the “pop” I’m looking for, pitch at 65F and keep it there for 24hrs, then move the bucket upstairs and leave it alone until it’s done.
I’ll keep ya’ll posted.[/quote]
Your previous beers may have developed the pop you’re after if you let them age cool long enough. How long did you wait until you drew the conclusion of dissapointment?
[quote=“Demus”][quote=“Mattbastard”]Thanks everyone. Good pointers all around
I think what I’m gonna do over the holidays is brew this same beer one more time, but switch only to 1214 since that provided the closest to the “pop” I’m looking for, pitch at 65F and keep it there for 24hrs, then move the bucket upstairs and leave it alone until it’s done.
I’ll keep ya’ll posted.[/quote]
Your previous beers may have developed the pop you’re after if you let them age cool long enough. How long did you wait until you drew the conclusion of dissapointment?[/quote]
Good point. Back then I didn’t have the production schedule I have (and have the patience for) now a days so a lot of my beers regardless of strength were consumed too early. I made the #8 and because I only had that one beer it was being drank within a month of brewing. I think the oldest it got was 6 mos.
Now I have numerous beers on tap and in bottles so I can wait until it’s ready, +1 year if needed. I recently made a Barley Wine back in mid November and really let it chill. It’s just now kegged, but I’m not tapping it, just carbing it. I’ll try it on my Birthday, mid March.
If it’s on draft have a little taste every few weeks or so, that way you’ll start to get a sense of what aging does. I feel like that’s an often overlooked benefit of kegging…
I was talking to a master brewer while visiting his brewery the other day and I asked him about belgians as I am fermenting one now. He said he purposely underpitches and gets his fermentation temps up to 80. He said that he felt like Belgian yeast strands shine the best when stressed.
I think it depends on how much character you want. In one of Jamil’s belgian podcasts, John Plise asks him about underpitching, and he doesn’t seem to think its a good idea. Ever. There are other ways to manipulate yeast and their byproducts. BUT Jamil is a fan of subtle flavors in belgians I think (as am I).
I judged saisons with Dave Houseman at a comp a few months back, and we agreed on the notion that the ones that had subtle saison characteristics, and were well-made (ie well-attenuated) belonged in the belgian best of show.
Personally, I like belgian beer styles, but hate a lot of homebrewed ‘belgian’ beer. In most cases, its because homebrewers think that they need to ferment hot, underpitch, and all this other nonsense that makes their beer a literal headache in a glass. I have had some undrinkable beers from otherwise good brewers who think they need to let the temp of their ferments run wild.
I’m not second-guessing this master brewer, but I would be interested to taste his beer.
