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How to clean up "green" flavor quicker?

Yeast & Fermentation
#1

I’ve been brewing like mad and haven’t had the usual primary times (6 weeks or so for <1.050OG) I usually opt for, simply bc of turn around times I’m shooting for. My process has been unchanged: big healthy yeast starter decanted, über sanitary process, unchanged mid 60’s ferm temps, rack to keg, cold crash, pump up pressure to 40 psi for few days, pour off ~1L to get yeast off bottom.

Here’s my query. With these recipes, regular ales, even yeast-driven farmhouse’ers, a primary of 4 weeks should be ample time for ferm and clean-up of the beer, yet when kegging after 4 weeks I’m getting some of the off, “Homebrew-y, green, yeasty” flavors at first, yet it mellows after a couple weeks in the keg, and all is kosher. I’M TIRED OF WAITING!! :smiley:

Q: How can I get the clean beer flavor that everyone talks about w/o waiting additional weeks? I like brewing for parties (It is football season after all) and I know I shouldn’t have to wait like this.

Thanks!

#2

I’ve thought a lot about this lately. It is my opinion/experience that any beers under 6% abv should easily be very drinkable at 2 weeks. They may get slightly better as they age or clear with cold conditioning, but it won’t be huge. A majority of my beers are kegged between 10-14 days from yeast pitching. I would also be baffled if my beer tasted green after 4 weeks on the yeast.

You could try cold crashing in the fermenter before transfer to keg to leave more yeast behind.

How does a typical ferment go for you? (process)
How are you maintaining fermentation temps?
How are you aerating?
Which yeast strains do you use most often?

More details may help us narrow this down for you. :cheers:

#3

Consider fining with gelatin to speed up the process of clearing the beer once it has reached final gravity.

#4

Have you had good luck with gelatin Dave? Any tips on using it.

Joe

#5

Gelatin sticks to yeast cells as if an invisible Spiderman zapped them all with webby goo. If you ever need to halt or slow fermentation and/or speed up clearing, it can work wonders. For 5 gallons I would dissolve about 1-2 tablespoons of unflavored Knox gelatin in a little hot (not quite boiling) water. It takes a long time to dissolve but keep on stirring and eventually it will. Then swirl your fermenter and slowly pour in the dissolved gelatin. It will stick to any yeast haze and you should see results immediately – it will look like a snow globe with flakes falling right away. Gelatin will not work for all types of haze such as protein haze. But for many kinds of haze such as yeast, there’s nothing better in the world. If it works, then 24 hours later you will have a crystal clear beer.

Actually I had not thought of this before, but I have often wondered how to halt fermentation in ciders because otherwise they want to keep on fermenting very dry down into the 0.990s. Gelatin is likely a good solution! For my next cider, maybe when gravity hits 1.020, I’ll hit it with gelatin as described above, rack it and do the same thing every week or two until the gravity stays constant, then bottle and keep it very cold to prevent refermentation. This would only work for a still or petillant cider. If you wanted a carbonated cider then you’d better ferment down to dryness first, or else watch out! You can remove some yeast with gelatin, but with any unfermented sugars remaining in the cider, you could get bottle bombs from the yeast cells that survived the gelatin treatment. For people who keg, it’s easier and they can get away with a lot of potential refermentation and carbonation issues, as they don’t have exploding shards of glass to worry about.

#6

A great way to increase turnaround (and I think a lot of breweries do this) is to hold ferment temp very steady for the first 2-3 days, then raise by 2*/day (or more) until it gets to around 70*. The vast majority of esters/phenols are created in the growth phase of fermentation, which occurs from 6-24 hours or so after pitching. Therefore, after that 2-3/3-4 day mark, you can let the yeast run wild and most of what they will be doing is attenuating those last few points and cleaning up diacetyl/acetaldehyde.

As Dave pointed out, once you have hit final gravity, maybe let it go one more day, then crash, gelatin, rack, carb, serve.

I am also a huge proponent of the quick carb method of kegging.

With that schedule, I have turned 4.5-5.5%abv ish beers around in 10 days before.

#7

+1 on the gelatin use for fining. Super easy and works very well.

#8

Awesome advice, thanks for the good post Dave. I will buy some and give it a shot.

#9

Gelatin does wonders for clearing your beer, but if they have a “green” taste then I don’t see why you are trying to drink them sooner. The beer is ready when it’s ready. (Not trying to sound like a jerk here)

#10

I think he’s trying to get rid of the green flavor sooner, so he can drink it sooner, and move up the timeframe of it being ready when its ready.

#11

Yups. Just trying to shorten my turnaround. Thanks all for the comments and advice. Pietro- I’m gonna give that ferm-temp-schedule a shot next time. I have bout 4 10 gallon batches, so I’m going to do a little experimenting here. Dave, I’m gonna do some gelin’ on one end and maybe filtering on the other.
Q: Anyone have experience with filtering? (God I hate me right now. Always been an Ale-Purist :smiley: )

I tried to pick up the NB Beerbrite system, but they’re backordered so I’m off to Lowe’s to construct one of a sorts. Should prob ask Dimik but does anyone know how small a filter needs to be to catch yeast?

Cheers brothas!! :cheers:

#12

[quote=“Beerginer”]
You could try cold crashing in the fermenter before transfer to keg to leave more yeast behind.

How does a typical ferment go for you? (process)
How are you maintaining fermentation temps?
How are you aerating?
Which yeast strains do you use most often?

More details may help us narrow this down for you. :cheers: [/quote]

Hey Beerginer, thanks for the answers and more Q’s. Here’s the dirty. More deets the better, right?
Typical fermentation is slammin’ for me. Extremely active. I ferment @~ 64degF, ~68degF for saisons.

I aerate using a mix-stir for about 5 minutes prior to pitch, and always pitch a healthy starter w/ accurate cell count according to http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html . Usually decant.

I love experimenting w/ yeast so always changing. As late it’s been WY3711 French saison, 1272AmericanII, 3725bier de Garde, 1318LondonIII, ESB, 1450Denny’s… Lot’s of these are low flocculation I know, bt I’ve tended to let those go longer, or have C.C.'d the primary’s and then kegged.

M’k I’ll shut up now. Thanks for any additional aid Y’all!
Point of Order: To toot my own horn I make damned good beer, in large part b/c o all I’ve read on here for years (THANKS BROTHAS!) and BTV. I’m just trying to tackle this timing issue to enjoy faster turnarounds.

#13

Processes sound solid. Your probably already know this, but watch those high floccers and let them warm up towards the end of fermentation so they don’t drop out before cleaning up. :cheers:

Also I know someone who bought the filtering equipment from NB. His beer is very clear, and clean, but he also looses about 1/2 gallon of beer in the process.

#14

I think he’s trying to get rid of the green flavor sooner, so he can drink it sooner, and move up the timeframe of it being ready when its ready.[/quote]

I can see that.
But there are other things…good things… that happen to the beer given a little more time.
I’ve certainly rushed beer to the glass at times (especially when brewing after being on the road for extended times).
And as many people in similar situations will confirm, the last few glasses are always the best tasting. The real solution, of course, is to brew more to give the beer more time to naturally come into it’s own.

But hey…when thirsty, we do what we have to do sometimes!
Still, sometimes the old way (patience) can’t be beat or improved upon. And it’s well demonstrated by typical brewpub product…very often green tasting, and obviously rushed out pretty fast (and some places even brag about it!). I really and truly believe that some beer drinkers are getting so accustomed to the taste of green (or not fully matured) beer, they come to expect it!

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