Giving Feedback to 'Pro' Brewers

The brewer and founder of a new farm brewery/hop farm in our area came to one of my clubs meetings recently. They have an AMAZING story, great packaging, and seemed like great guys overall. They are doing cool festivals, a frisbee golf course, do a lot for their community, and have helped with legislative matters.

Then we tried their beer…

Every one of them (4 different beers) produced on a 7bbl system were extremely flawed. Acetaldehyde, fusels, lots of sulfur (?)…borderline offensive beer.

They said they would love feedback, but I didn’t necessarily feel comfortable sitting back, twirling my imaginary mustache, and asking them about pitch rates and yeast viability at a club meeting. However I did ask them, “What yeast do you use in this beer”, to which they both replied with quizzical looks. Yes, quizzical looks. Mind you, there was an amber, an IPA, a bitter, and a stout. The reply was “one of the dry ones”, but I’m not even sure they were fully confident in their answer.

I wasn’t sure if/how to give the feedback, but landed on a (hopefully) polite private email.

The following is my attempt and the response.

Me:

and the response

Needless to say, I will not be spending my hard earned money on their beer. There is no way the flavors in the beer have anything to do with water or hops.

You were plenty respectful in your letter and even more so in not bringing these things up in front of an entire homebrew club. You never know how their methods may change/evolve in the coming months & years and they may look back and think to themselves “that guy was spot on back then”. Unfortunately I take his response to you as a respectful “piss off”.

Good luck on your National Certification!

So hes saying if our beers taste great we did it on purpose and if they dont taste great we also did it on purpose because “a few customers” like it that way. Hey at least you tried

Could be worse. Try giving a musician feedback about their flaws. :shock:

[quote=“GeerBoggles”] Unfortunately I take his response to you as a respectful “piss off”.

[/quote]

Agreed. Which is fine. I mean I didn’t send the email to get a “Oh my God, THANK YOU FOR MAKING US AWARE OF THIS! You must have an AWESOME palette! Say, would you want a $40/hour consulting gig with us as our head of QC? We will make sure you have a keg of our beer on hand at all times. Sure we’ll give you equity in the company!” (though that does sound awesome…ok maybe I was hoping for something like that somewhere in the recesses of my twisted mind(!)).

What irks me though is that a BMC drinker is going to check out this cool farm brewery, stop in with his friends, taste the beer, have a great time, and think “This is what craft beer tastes like”…and the beer outright sucks. 90% of the guys in my homebrew clubs can make better beer than this.

Great letter, telling response. They clearly don’t know anything about water chemistry and I’d bet that they haven’t analyzed their hops either, so they’re just brewing blind on every batch.

They may have an “AMAZING” story, but it will most likely be a short one… I imagine they will have a lame excuse for their ultimate failure as well… Cheers, and here’s to good brew!!!

Yep, I’ve been following this story. You’ve posted elsewhere, too…right? Well anyway, you gave it a nice try. Very well written letter. If they choose to ignore you, well, OK. They’ll make it or not depending on who they do listen to.

I’ve seen others write that folks will sit and drink bad beer because they don’t know better and that’s what they think craft beer tastes like. I guess if you pair that atitude with a brewer of the same attitude then they probably deserve each other.

Hi Mike, yours was a good email, very respectful and offering good suggestions but unfortunately they think they know better. I used to do alot of small business consulting and tax work and was amazed at the things people do and then they won’t even consider advice from others that may have been there, done that so to speak.

Many times they go into bankruptcy wondering what happened…

Hmmmm… Seven barrel system you say? Let me know if you spot them sinking fast. I may be able to swoop in and buy the brewhouse cheap.

I faced the same issues with a small local brewery recently. Not surprising that interest in their beer is quickly fading.

Pietro, out of curiosity is this brewery in an area with solid competition? Seems that this can force most local breweries to shape up or ship out.

[quote=“Pietro”][quote=“GeerBoggles”] Unfortunately I take his response to you as a respectful “piss off”.

[/quote]

Agreed. Which is fine. I mean I didn’t send the email to get a “Oh my God, THANK YOU FOR MAKING US AWARE OF THIS! You must have an AWESOME palette! Say, would you want a $40/hour consulting gig with us as our head of QC? We will make sure you have a keg of our beer on hand at all times. Sure we’ll give you equity in the company!” (though that does sound awesome…ok maybe I was hoping for something like that somewhere in the recesses of my twisted mind(!)).

What irks me though is that a BMC drinker is going to check out this cool farm brewery, stop in with his friends, taste the beer, have a great time, and think “This is what craft beer tastes like”…and the beer outright sucks. 90% of the guys in my homebrew clubs can make better beer than this.[/quote]

Only 90%? :lol:

And they didn’t know what yeast they used.
Anyone want to start a pool on when they go under? :slight_smile:

Seems like their focus isn’t entirely on the beer, which is fine, but it you want to make great beer, great attention is required.

I’m willing to guess that since there has been such a boom over the last 10ish years in craft breweries, that this is a more common occurrence than we all would like to think. With so many more breweries slated to open, i’m sure breweries like this will be short lived. I’d be willing to bet that within the next ten years or so, that there will be tons of micro brewery equipment for sale at rock bottom prices.

I mean its not Denver, but there are probably a solid 5 breweries/brands made locally that make GABF-winning caliber beer that you can get anywhere you get Bud Light…another 5 really great brewpubs and another 20 not-so-good…but no, there isn’t a brewpub on every corner. Also, the area doesn’t allow for tap rooms (where you can sell a full pint), so its not as hot as Colorado for instance.

I don’t want to give a whole lot of details, as I didn’t create this thread to trash these guys or give people negative opinions…more just to caution on giving unsolicited (or in this case, SOLICITED!) feedback. They are creating an experience, which is good, but they are also packaging and distributing, which could spell trouble for them. If it was just a low overhead, consume-on-premises thing, it might have a shot just because of people finding a place to drink small batch (bad) beer in a rural/agrarian setting to be ‘novel’.

[quote=“Rookie L A”]

Only 90%? :lol: [/quote]

Well, we have a few guys that think every time a beer gets infected or is fermented too warm, or its pitched too low, its a ‘sour’.

Ugh. :mrgreen:

I’m kinda banking on the equipment being available sooner :wink:

[quote=“Pietro”]
I mean its not Denver, but there are probably a solid 5 breweries/brands made locally that make GABF-winning caliber beer that you can get anywhere you get Bud Light…another 5 really great brewpubs and another 20 not-so-good…but no, there isn’t a brewpub on every corner. Also, the area doesn’t allow for tap rooms (where you can sell a full pint), so its not as hot as Colorado for instance.

I don’t want to give a whole lot of details, as I didn’t create this thread to trash these guys or give people negative opinions…more just to caution on giving unsolicited (or in this case, SOLICITED!) feedback. They are creating an experience, which is good, but they are also packaging and distributing, which could spell trouble for them. If it was just a low overhead, consume-on-premises thing, it might have a shot just because of people finding a place to drink small batch (bad) beer in a rural/agrarian setting to be ‘novel’.[/quote]

Obviously I don’t need to know who.

It’s interesting that someone would be so invested yet care so little. Even as a ~12 batch per year kit brewer, I do my best to improve and am receptive to criticism from those who know.

I’m especially surprised with the attitude given they aren’t the only local brewery. It would seem that the growing market might mean stronger competition to nail styles and pack the house.