tl;dr: Why does my lager kit say to ferment at 70 degrees?
I decided I wanted to start making lagers and recently purchased a chest freezer and digital temperature controller as well as the NB American Lager kit.
I’m reading through the instructions and see that it calls for primary fermentation to take place at 60-72 degrees Fahrenheit. It then calls for secondary fermentation to take place at 35-40 degrees Fahrenheit and getting to that temperature by lowering the temperature from 60-72 to 35-40, a couple degrees a day.
This is confusing to me for a few reasons and I thought you guys might be able to clear these questions up for me.
1: I thought lagers were fermented at lower temperatures. Why is the beer decanted off the yeast after higher temp fermentation ends before its taken to a lower temperature?
2: Even if I’m taking the beer from 60 to 40 degrees, 2 degrees a day will take 10 of the 28 days. Is the beer really only intended to be in secondary, at temp for 18 days?
Of course, I don’t usually take fermentation times so literally so unless you guys think taking 10 days is a good idea, I’ll probably take it from 65 (the temp the beer will be in primary, in my basement) to 40 in 3 or 4 days. I’m still confused about the primary temp, though. Are there two strains of yeast in the pack and a higher temp yeast works through primary while a lower temp yeast stays dormant until secondary?
I’ve never done a lager personally and can’t really give you a great answer but a quick look at the fermentis website shows the optimal fermentation temp for that yeast is 53-59.
Is it possible that the kit comes with ale yeast and that the instructions are for that yeast and maybe some additional information about using lager yeast? Which yeast came with the kit? You should try to get the temp of the wort close to the temp you want to ferment at (which would be near 50° for a lager yeast) and then let the primary fermentation go at that temp until the end or close to the end. At that point you can raise the temp for a diacetyl rest (the yeast cleans up any off flavors it may have created… buttery, sulphury, etc) and then lower it to lager temps. The lowering of the temp by small increments has been widely discussed by many people and mostly ignored, I think. I have been making lagers for many years and go primary → secondary at basement temps → lager phase in the 30s → keg, carb, enjoy. There is a page on my site (link below) for new lager brewers. Welcome to lagers, LagerMan!
Well, those instructions are messed up. I just glanced at them. Look at the yeast, Wyeast 2007: Optimal temperature 48-56*. I’d set the freezer to 52* or so to give you a little wiggle room. Looking at the Wyeast page it doesn’t say anything about a D-rest and that it produces minimal surlfer so you should be fine skipping that. I’d wait two to three weeks for fermentation to finish and then I personally would rack it to a secondary vessel and drop the temp. I don’t mess with the 2* a day but some people swear by it. Lager for a month or two.
I haven’t purchased the yeast yet because I usually just buy it from a place down the street to avoid damage during shipping but it calls for Wyeast 2007 Pilsen Lager Yeast. Here
are the instructions if that will help. Wyeast puts that yeast’s optimum temp at 48-56F.
Just to make sure I understand, you suggest primary at 48-56 degrees for this yeast, secondary at basement temp (~65), lager in the 30s, keg, carb, drink. That sounds like what my previous understanding of lagers would suggest. Not sure why the instructions call for primary at 65.
I have a sort of “assembly line” for my beers so pretty much any beer I make (ale or lager) goes primary → secondary on the basement floor for x amount of time → keg (where it gets cold, carbed and then stored until I have an open tap). That means that lagers end up on the basement floor (at cool basement temps) right next to ales but the lagers will generally stay cold in a keg for a longer period of time (to lager) than ales would. Yes, I would ferment a beer made with 2007 in the temp range called for by the yeast and I would shoot for the lower end of that range, personally. On the topic of d-rests, I know that some strains benefit from it and for others it’s not necessary. But I never take a beer from 50° primary to 35° secondary/lager without bringing the beer up to maybe 60° for a few days or longer. I think it helps for the yeast to clean up and possibly lower the gravity by a few ticks. When I have made lagers in the past without warming the beer up between primary and secondary, I have had some funny flavors but that could just be the strain of lager yeast I used. I agree that the instructions are incorrect. If you want to clarify them, you could call and ask about it but it seems very unusual to me. There are strains (2124 Bohemian comes to mind) that can actually be used at warmer temps but I wouldn’t even bother with that. Use the proper temp range for the yeast. Cheers & good luck with the beer.
Btw… it’s a hard style to make as your first lager. Any off-flavors have nowhere to hide. I’m not trying to talk you out of it or scare you, just sharing some experience in making styles like this.
I actually really like 2007 because it is pretty easy to use. If you are set up for propper lager temperatures that is ideal. But this is one of the lager yeasts that works very well for slightly higher temps as well.
I second what K Len mentions. I would find the coolest spot in my basement (15-16 C) and do primary (I tend to do a secondary as well).
Then put in the keg and cold store a little longer if possible.
The last time I used 2007 like this it was silky smooth and very clean.
Some homebrewers have suggested that this is Budweiser’s yeast and refer to 2007 as “St. Louis”. As a result, many homebrewers steer clear of it which is probably not fair. I’m sure you can make an excellent lager with it.
Hey - speaking of first lagers, let me know what you think.
Brewed my first lager, Jamil’s Vienna Lager. I grew up a 2-step, 2L stirred starter ahead of time. It’s been at 50 degrees in my MOFC http://www.wortomatic.com/articles/38DD-Mother-of-a-Fermentation-Chiller
for 16 days. I just took a gravity reading, and it’s at about 1.010-1.012, so it appears to be at FG. It tastes spicy and bready, but also has some apple esters. Will those fade quite a bit? It tastes really good right now, even being so green.
I decided to give it a d-rest in my basement for a while. How’s a week at 60 degrees?
Then I’ll keg it up and lager in my keg fridge for as long as possible. Just kind of thinking out loud here, hoping I’ve got it all laid out. I took at look at your lagering info Ken, and it seems like the way to go.
I was going to brew a Munich Dunkel next. Should I use the entire washed yeast cake?
[quote=“El Capitan”]Hey - speaking of first lagers, let me know what you think.
Brewed my first lager, Jamil’s Vienna Lager. I grew up a 2-step, 2L stirred starter ahead of time. It’s been at 50 degrees in my MOFC http://www.wortomatic.com/articles/38DD-Mother-of-a-Fermentation-Chiller
for 16 days. I just took a gravity reading, and it’s at about 1.010-1.012, so it appears to be at FG. It tastes spicy and bready, but also has some apple esters. Will those fade quite a bit? It tastes really good right now, even being so green.
I decided to give it a d-rest in my basement for a while. How’s a week at 60 degrees?
Then I’ll keg it up and lager in my keg fridge for as long as possible. Just kind of thinking out loud here, hoping I’ve got it all laid out. I took at look at your lagering info Ken, and it seems like the way to go.
I was going to brew a Munich Dunkel next. Should I use the entire washed yeast cake?[/quote]
I need to look at Jamil’s Vienna recipe because I have heard it mentioned but have never checked it out. What yeast does he suggest? El Capitan, I wouldn’t pitch the entire cake… I think it’s way too much. Maybe check out Jamil’s yeast pitching calculator (slide the controls and pick the settings… lager, OG, whether the yeast is new, harvested, etc. Thickness, non-yeast content, etc.) and see what it says. I often end up pitching around 200-250ml of harvested slurry for my lagers and end up throwing about 3 times that amount down the drain. Cheers.
It calls for WY2308, Munich Lager. His fermentation schedule is primary at 50 degrees, then lager for 4 weeks. Pretty vague on the lagering notes. I figured I would mess with the yeast calc and see what I got. Thanks!
I saw a few references to his recipe where they call for White Labs 838. Many people have said this is the same yeast but I just made a string of lagers with 838 and did not care for its profile. I have 2308 back up and running right now and I just put the recipe and water composition together to make this beer. I think I have everything but not sure on the Carafa. Happy Lagering everyone!
