We finally made the leap into all grains after 12 batches of extract/partial mash kits.
We built our own mash tun and picked up the Dead Ringer IPA kit from NB.
I feel like we did everything like we were supposed to. OG was supposed to be 1.064 but it came in at 1.048.
I’ve been getting a lot of tips from fellow forum-ite, El Capitan…he lives near me and I sat in on one of his AG batches before doing my own. He mentioned that the crush quality of NB grains is not very good and could have effected the efficiency of the mash.
Anyone else experience this? What other things could cause the gravity to be so low?
Need some more details. Crush certainly is a factor, but so is temperature, PH, grain bill, sparge technique and overall mash volume. Assuming there was enough starches and enzymes to get to 1.068, maybe you just didn’t sparge enough. Sometimes you have to boil off 2 gallons or more to get the right gravity. Send Northern Brewer an email and ask them what efficiency they calculate their grain bills on. Maybe they are just a little “optimistic” in the interest of proffits…
What was the gravity of the runnings when you stopped the sparge?
We mashed at 152/153 for an hour. It maintained temp the whole time.
Grain bill was 12lb total.
Mashed with 5 gallons of strike water. Batch sparged with 3.5 gallons. Estimating that 6.5-7 gallons went into the boil kettle.
The gravity of first runnings was 1.054, but from what I know, first runnings should have been in the 1.070+ range and second runnings should have been in the 1.030 range to have the whole batch average out. Didn’t take gravity on second runnings though.
As far as water, we used RO water and added a few minerals (Gymsum, Chalk, Epsom Salt, etc) Didn’t have a scale that weighed in 1/10th gram, but I have a conversion chart for teaspoons to grams that seemed to do okay. Eyeballing “almost a full teaspoon” is tough, bit I figure we got close enough for our needs.
We allowed the sparge water to sit and mash for an additional 15 minutes.
The one thing we did that I wasn’t sure on was use our mash paddle to squish out the remaining liquid with the mash tun tilted on end for the wort to run out. I’d say we got 95% of our volume by just letting it drain, and the rest from compressing the liquid out of the grains.
We put 5 1/2 gallons into the fermenter at 1.048.
Like I said, I feel like we did everything right: added minerals to the water, mashed at the correct temp, boiled off to the target volume, etc.
This will turn out to be more of a session IPA at the lower ABV, which is okay…I just want to know what we did wrong to avoid it next time.
Sounds fine but I think I heard not to squish the grain - no biggie. My thoughts are with your gravity measurement and volume. What instrument did you use? What does it measure with distilled water? As far as volume, when making kits I usually just barely have 5 gal for the primary (usually a little less).
Does that happen often? I guess the bag of grains “felt” heavy enough to be 12 pounds…not that I’d know the difference between 10lbs and 12lbs just by feel though. So I really had no reason to question the grain weight.
[quote=“mbg”]Sounds fine but I think I heard not to squish the grain - no biggie. My thoughts are with your gravity measurement. What instrument did you use? What does it measure with distilled water?
Mike[/quote]
I thought about that too. We use a hydrometer. It measure 1.000 at room temp RO water (the same we used for the brew).
How did you measure your final volume? Did you have 5 gallons in the fermenter and some left in the kettle? Your process looks solid but a 1.75-2 gallon boil off rate seems high for most systems, unless you have a large diameter pot and a rocking burner.[quote=“stompwampa”]We use a hydrometer. It measure 1.000 at room temp[/quote]Most hydrometers are calibrated for 60°
[quote=“stompwampa”][quote=“mbg”]Sounds fine but I think I heard not to squish the grain - no biggie. My thoughts are with your gravity measurement. What instrument did you use? What does it measure with distilled water?
Mike[/quote]
I thought about that too. We use a hydrometer. It measure 1.000 at room temp RO water (the same we used for the brew).[/quote]
See my edited note. I don’t brew often (3-4 times a year) but for 5 gal recipes I usually have 7.75 to 8 gallons added to the grain and you had 8.5. Plus you squished the grain so your grain absorption would be less than mine. If you used 1/2 gal less water and didn’t squish might have gotten you closer to OG.
I measured final volume by the gallon marks on the side of the bucket. 5.5 gallons into primary.
The only measurements I know we’re exact we’re the 5 gal into the mash and the 3.5 gal into as sparge.
I only estimated the volume in the boil kettle based on what I’m used to seeing with our 3 gallon extract batches.
As for the hydrometer being calibrated at 60 degrees…how big of a difference will the reading be from 60 degrees to the 65 that we tested at?[/quote]
The extra half gallon you ended with accounts for some of the difference; it was a 5 gallon recipie so you “thinned” it with the extra half gallon. Hydrometer could be another point or two. You could have fixed this a few ways by the way.
-Longer boil (less water = higher gravity)
-Add some DME (I always keep some on hand for starters and adjustments)
-Sparge longer to extract more sugar (now you’d have to boil off even more)
Check out the calculations in “How to Brew”. You can calculate the gravity of a given amount of fermentables at any volume of water. This way you’ll know what your target is and how to hit it. In the future, bump up the grain bill a pound or two. It’s an inexpensive way to hit your target every time; you can always stop the sparge early. It’s tougher add more if you’re lite!!
I would say your water volume is the main culprit and probably a poor crush. Water volume is very important. I would make a measuring stick, a length of 1/2" CPVC pipe with a cap glued on one end works well, get an accurate gallon of water measured, dump it in your pot, mark it with a Sharpie, add another gallon, mark it, etc.
If you had 5.5 gallons in the fermenter and another 1-1.5 quarts absorbed by the hops and trub left in the kettle, you would be close to a gallon over the final volume.
Just to reiterate what others have said; the quality of the crush can have a huge effect on mash efficiency. A couple of years ago, I was scratching my head as to why my efficiency had gone south. I finally was able to determine it was my LHBS and not me.
Í’d guess crush also. All of the kits I’ve used from NB have come in where they should for the most part. You would have to have 6.75 gallon post boil for it to be a volume issue. You didn’t somehow lose 1.25 gallons did ya?
How can the crush be bette if we order crushed grains from NB?
On a side note, for a first time AG brewer, the instructions that came with the kit are total crap. Nothing in there about volume of strike water, volume of sparge water, temperature for either, target mash temp, target boil volume, etc.
Basically, everything you need to know was nowhere to be found.
If it weren’t for the instructions provided by a fellow board member, I would have up a certain creek without a paddle.
Iodine can be used to to check starch conversion of the mash. Pull a teaspoon out of the mash and add a couple drops of iodine, Iodophor sanitizer works too, if it turns black there’s still starch present. It’s not very accurate.
How can the crush be bette if we order crushed grains from NB?
On a side note, for a first time AG brewer, the instructions that came with the kit are total crap. Nothing in there about volume of strike water, volume of sparge water, temperature for either, target mash temp, target boil volume, etc.
Basically, everything you need to know was nowhere to be found.
If it weren’t for the instructions provided by a fellow board member, I would have up a certain creek without a paddle.[/quote]
I’ve read you can ask NB to double crush the grains when your order.
As for all the water volumes, I use an app on my phone called Homebrew Pal and also use an online calculator here: http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml
The main reason you aren’t given water amounts on the recipe sheet is that systems vary widely with boil-off, losses in the mash tun, etc.
Keep rocking the AG batches. Sometimes the efficiency issues can be a pain to track down but the final product is still so rewarding!
