I recently brewed a dunkelweizen following roughly this recipe:
50% weyermann wheat
25% best malz pilsner
25% weyermann munich/a few scoops of caramunich
single infusion mash around 152 or so, batch sparged
O.G. ~1.048, 2 L starter of 3068, F.G. around 1.015
I bottled it roughly 3 weeks ago and it’s carbed up very nicely. Cracked the first bottle and poured it. Beautiful copper color, fluffy head, and effervescence. Aroma is pretty much spot on, but alas it has literally almost no flavor. None of the sweetness you’d enjoy in a wheat beer.
It’s disappointing and I want to know what I did wrong. I’m guessing is might be something with the mash or my choice of grains. Did I need to do a protein rest? Or is it just the relatively low gravity? I believe the Weihenstephan and Ayinger versions I was trying to emulate clock in around the upper 5s for ABV, but I wouldn’t expect 10 points to make that much difference.
i dont know much about dunkelweizen getting ready to brew first batch here in couple weeks, all i can say is let it sit a week more, i brewed ST pauls porter, three weeks in tasted identical to soda, about fours days or week later was perfection, all is not lost, also put up more information, some of the more talented people on this forum will want to know in order to give adivce,
What were your fermentation temps? I use WY3638 for my weizens, and I get the best results at about 65F. Even a few degrees higher and I lose a lot of the flavor I’m shooting for. I’m not that familiar with 3068, but I’m sure it has some temperature ranges that are better for the ester and/or phenolic profile you are looking for.
I also intentionally underpitch a bit. For a 5 gallon batch of 1.050ish wort I only pitch 1 pack with no starter. A little stress on the yeast will actually get you more of the flavor you are looking for.
[quote=“erockrph”]What were your fermentation temps? I use WY3638 for my weizens, and I get the best results at about 65F. Even a few degrees higher and I lose a lot of the flavor I’m shooting for. I’m not that familiar with 3068, but I’m sure it has some temperature ranges that are better for the ester and/or phenolic profile you are looking for.
I also intentionally underpitch a bit. For a 5 gallon batch of 1.050ish wort I only pitch 1 pack with no starter. A little stress on the yeast will actually get you more of the flavor you are looking for.[/quote]
Low 60s. Like I said the aroma is pretty much right on, which makes me think it’s not a fermentation problem but a mash problem. I’ve never tasted a beer that had such little sweetness to it, it’s really quite remarkable. I’m specifically wondering if a protein rest would’ve allowed some of the sweetness to shine through better. Yes I know if I wanted a super authentic product I needed to do a decoction. Someday, someday…
[quote=“dalemcdonalds”][quote=“erockrph”]What were your fermentation temps? I use WY3638 for my weizens, and I get the best results at about 65F. Even a few degrees higher and I lose a lot of the flavor I’m shooting for. I’m not that familiar with 3068, but I’m sure it has some temperature ranges that are better for the ester and/or phenolic profile you are looking for.
I also intentionally underpitch a bit. For a 5 gallon batch of 1.050ish wort I only pitch 1 pack with no starter. A little stress on the yeast will actually get you more of the flavor you are looking for.[/quote]
Low 60s. Like I said the aroma is pretty much right on, which makes me think it’s not a fermentation problem but a mash problem. I’ve never tasted a beer that had such little sweetness to it, it’s really quite remarkable. I’m specifically wondering if a protein rest would’ve allowed some of the sweetness to shine through better. Yes I know if I wanted a super authentic product I needed to do a decoction. Someday, someday…[/quote]
The Weihenstephan yeast works better at a warmer temp, around 66F to 68F. Since you fermented it at its low end of the range, that’d be why you’re not getting the character you want. I don’t think doing a protein rest would’ve made any difference.
The Weihenstephan yeast works better at a warmer temp, around 66F to 68F. Since you fermented it at its low end of the range, that’d be why you’re not getting the character you want. I don’t think doing a protein rest would’ve made any difference.[/quote]
Protein rest shouldn’t make any difference. A ferrulic acid rest (109-113F) may enhance the amount of clove character in the finished beer.
Could you be a little more specific about what flavors you think are missing? Is it just the clove/banana/bubblegum phenolics, or are you missing maltiness? This should really be a yeast-forward style with some rich caramel/melanoidin sweetness/richness there to support it.
If the phenols are what are missing, then I would agree with the other posters about your fermentation temp. Low end of the range will give you much more restrained/barely present phenolics. Intentionally underpitching is optional in my mind (and in some cases risky, as you may not get the attenuation you want) if you are able to control the temp.
It doesn’t sound like this was an issue with mashing.
Rereading your original post, you mention “a few scoops” of CaraMunich. If you’re looking for more sweetness in the flavor specifically, you could probably push the CaraMunich as high as maybe 10% or so.
I don’t personally get a lot of sweetness in a dunkelweizen, in fact it usually finishes rather dry with a hint of roast. It has decent body and a malt-forward presence that balances with the spicy yeast character.
This is from the guidelines. I’m with you on the dryness, but not the other points. Then again, not something I drink regularly, but have judged before:
Flavor: Low to moderately strong banana and clove flavor.
The balance and intensity of the phenol and ester components
can vary but the best examples are reasonably balanced and
fairly prominent. Optionally, a very light to moderate vanilla
character and/or low bubblegum notes can accentuate the
banana flavor, sweetness and roundness; neither should be
dominant if present. The soft, somewhat bready or grainy flavor
of wheat is complementary, as is a richer caramel and/or
melanoidin character from Munich and/or Vienna malt. The
malty richness can be low to medium-high, but shouldn’t
overpower the yeast character. A roasted malt character is inappropriate.Hop flavor is very low to none, and hop bitterness
is very low to low. A tart, citrusy character from yeast and
high carbonation is sometimes present, but typically muted.
Well rounded, flavorful, often somewhat sweet palate with a
relatively dry finish. No diacetyl or DMS.
Mouthfeel: Medium-light to medium-full
