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Belgian Pale Ale

Hi All,
I was reading BJCP 16B for a Belgian Pale I’m planning. It suggests the use of Caravienne and Munich. The writing suggests that both are to be used. I was wondering if that is actually the case and if so, what would you think the percentages would be. I use Munich quite often in my pales but I have never used Cvienne. Thoughts on useing both or just one etc?
Thanks, Mike

PS, my goal here is to keep the beer quite sessionable but lighter like a Blond. With that, I don’t want to overload either Munich or Cvienne from an SRM standpoint. Thanks again.

I believe that particular guideline is based on Orval,
which reportably uses a small amount of each malt.
But, they also finish it with Brett, so it dries it out nicely.
If it was me, I’d probably skip them for a dry, refreshing beer.
What yeast are you pitching?

Hey Scott,
I’m pitching 3522 Ardennes b/c that’s what’s on hand. I used it in a Saison and got a nice dry beer. Based on that, my notion is I can have a nice malt bill. Here’s my recipe. Any input is appreciated. Again, my goal being light and simple.
8# Belgian Pils
.75# Munich
.75# Cvienne
Perle for bittering
Saaz for finishing
Approx OG 1.054, IBU 28, SRM 6

Thanks,
Mike

Now that I think about it, seems like it might be influenced by De Koninck pale too.
Which is alot more malty than Orval, for sure.

That would be pure luck in my guesstimation on this one. I’d like to try a D. I heard it’s quite tasty.

I have a belgian pale ale on tap right now. I was going for something like palm, or dekonick. I also took the advice from the BJCP guidelines and used both caravienne and caramunich.

8.7lbs weyermann pilsner
1lb biscuit
.5lb caramunich
.5lb caravienne

Belgian ardennes

Came out to the right color I wanted (slight reddish to brown hue), so I’d recommend either lowering both amounts, or just using more caravienne and less caramunich for a little lighter color.

The aroma from the malt and yeast is amazing, but it doesn’t quite pack the malt punch yet that I was going for (although I just tapped it so its fairly young). Its a sessionable beer and decently light, but for me I would probably only go with caravienne next time and use a good percentage of standard munich to give it a bit more backbone.

A couple times recently I’ve done:

59% Pils
24% Malted Wheat
12% Munich (8 SRM)
6% CaraVienne (22 SRM)

The wheat keeps the color down while still allowing a rich malt character. The color is actually a little light (6 SRM) relative to the style guidelines.

[quote]I’m pitching 3522 Ardennes b/c that’s what’s on hand. I used it in a Saison and got a nice dry beer. Based on that, my notion is I can have a nice malt bill. Here’s my recipe. Any input is appreciated. Again, my goal being light and simple.
8# Belgian Pils
.75# Munich
.75# Cvienne
Perle for bittering
Saaz for finishing
Approx OG 1.054, IBU 28, SRM 6
[/quote]

Sounds like a great recipe to me.

[quote=“Scott Miller”]I believe that particular guideline is based on Orval,
which reportably uses a small amount of each malt.
But, they also finish it with Brett, so it dries it out nicely.
If it was me, I’d probably skip them for a dry, refreshing beer.
What yeast are you pitching?[/quote]

Could be, but Orval isn’t even a “Commercial Example” listed under 16B.

[quote=“Wahoo”]Could be, but Orval isn’t even a “Commercial Example” listed under 16B.[/quote]It’s #1 under 16E - Belgian Specialty. If I was making a Belgian Pale, I’d make enough wort to add brett to at least one fermenter.

The way brew-wiki describes brett, I can’t wrap my head around why you would want to add it. However the suggestion to use it here has come from a couple pretty knowledgable brew cats. So what gives? Is sour really a nice taste? Splain :?

[quote=“Steppedonapoptop”]Is sour really a nice taste?[/quote]Brett doesn’t sour - it brings a range of flavors and aromas to the beer, from cherry pie to “barnyard” and leather, and can add a tart character, and different strains of Brett add different things. It also can lower the FG over time. Have you ever tried Orval?

brett is not really sour, it is more funky. Brett in a BPA adds a new-leather type of aroma. Other strains give more of a cherry pie nose. Or sometimes, a mammal urine character! :cheers:

I did this one, calling it a belgian pale, which works out to a 5 SRM:(to me, it looks alot darker than a 5)
[attachment=0]IMG_20120608_211032-1.jpg[/attachment]
50% belgian pils
20% belgian pale
10% munich 9*
10% belgian crystal 10*
10% white sugar
45 IBU’s from EKG & SG, finished with Hallertauer.
Culture built up from an Orval took it from 1.057 to 1.007,
Should be going even lower, as it seems to get more “urinated on leather” tasting every time I try one.
Looking at my notes, I brewed this 6 months ago, and I’ve only drank 1/2 dozen so far, waiting on the Brett.
I suppose if you’re going to do a brett summer beer for next summer, now’s the time to do it.

I’ve made about 10 of these in the past couple years. It’s pretty much my go-to session beer. I think BPAs are a lot like brittish bitters, but with “beligan” ingredients (belgian yeast, caravienne or caramunich, etc.). But both are easy drinking, low gravity, restrained in flavor, and sessionable.

A good recipe discussion is found here:
http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19038
. For my tastes, I like to add a little biscuit and Special B, but they’re not necessary. I’ll use pils or pale base malt, vienna or munich, or caravienne or caramunich, depending on what I have on hand, and then just adjust the recipe to make it as sessionable as possible. I try to mute the yeast as much as possible, by either using a low-flavored belgian yeast like WL515, or fermenting in the low 60s. I try to let the malt be the main player.

I love brett in these recipes, and make those too, but I agree that if there’s brett it would fall under 16E instead of 16B. But that only matters if you’re entering a competition. I think De Konnick and Palm are the go-to examples of this style, at least for USA imports. I find Palm a little more malt-forward. If I were trying to duplicate Palm, I’d use slightly more munich and caramalts, whereas I think DeKonnick is probably less munich with a touch of Special B. But I’m only guessing. I’ve tweaked my recipe every time and enjoyed them all.

For the OP’s recipe, I’d suggest bumping up the munich to make it a little more malt-forward, or replacing some of the pils with pale malt.

I’ve tried Orval but my uneducated pallate and knowledge didn’t know I was drinking DNA from an old couch in a barn with cherry pie stains… If I recall, I liked it however.

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