Belgian beers for people who don't like Belgian beers

I didn’t like Belgians until I got that tongue transplant :shock: Seriously, though, when drinking some Belgians with a fair amount of Brett and Pedio, the flavor sticks with me, sometimes for a day or so (really). I don’t know how the judges at BJCP can taste the next one after some of those sours (but I still like them on their own - so I just avoid lighter beer until my taste buds get reset).

I have found that my palate is overly sensitive to clove, so Hefes are a rare beer for me. And the sours intensify the sensitivity to clove for some reason, so I start to imagine it in everything, so that’s when pretzels or crackers are mandatory to try a reset.

Good luck with your exploration - BTW, Ken, I brew your lagers all the time to rave approval of my beer crew!

[quote=“ynotbrusum”]I didn’t like Belgians until I got that tongue transplant :shock: Seriously, though, when drinking some Belgians with a fair amount of Brett and Pedio, the flavor sticks with me, sometimes for a day or so (really). I don’t know how the judges at BJCP can taste the next one after some of those sours (but I still like them on their own - so I just avoid lighter beer until my taste buds get reset).

I have found that my palate is overly sensitive to clove, so Hefes are a rare beer for me. And the sours intensify the sensitivity to clove for some reason, so I start to imagine it in everything, so that’s when pretzels or crackers are mandatory to try a reset.

Good luck with your exploration - BTW, Ken, I brew your lagers all the time to rave approval of my beer crew![/quote]
There is not a lot of clove in sours.

As for the paters get someone to send you a growler of pour decisions paters, Kristin made the recipe for Nb kit. Awesome stuff.

Rochefort 10 and Westvleteren 12 are amongst the best Belgian Quads in the world.

If you can find one, try it. Rochefort 10 can be had for 6 - 7 dollars per 11 oz. bottle. Westy 12’s are generally not available in the US (though they did a limited release a while back to raise money for the monestary).

You should get alcohol warmth, but never an alcohol bite. Bite = bad beer.

Pick up a copy of Stan Hieronymus ‘Brew Like a Monk’.

Check out the yeast flavor profiles for Wyeast on page 178 (and while you’re at it give it a read, it’s a very interesting book). (Sorry couldn’t find the chart on the internet.)

http://www.amazon.com/Brew-Like-Monk-Tr ... ike+a+monk

Also check out the Candi Syrup Recipes, most of which are Belgians.

http://www.candisyrup.com/recipes.html

[quote=“Belpaire”][quote=“ALSS”]Two belgian recipies that are subdued on the yeast flavors (to my taste anyway) are:

(1) NB’s Biere de Garde – It uses Wyeast 2112 http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/bier … n-kit.html.

(2) Begian Strong Golden Ale. NB recipie uses Wyeast 1388. I am not sure if would be too much alchohol “burn” for you, though.[/quote]

Not to be picky but Biere de Garde is a French style beer. Fermented with a pseudo lager yeast you will definately not get any Belgian character.

BGSA is a good suggestion. Ken, have you had Duvel? It is on the amped up side of ABV at 8.5% but the esters don’t punch you in the face like some other styles.[/quote]
I’ll second the suggestion to try a Duvel. The BGSA recipe out of “Classic Brewing Styles” makes a fabulous clone which I brewed this year. Drinks very easy, good for warm weather, and you only notice the alcohol when you try to stand up.

Hi Ken,
I share you thought that I’ve never met a Belgian that I enjoyed. To me, there was an off-flavor that I could only describe as ‘dead mouse’.
BUT… I recently tried two beers from a brewery in Quebec called Unibroue. I tried a Dubbel Red called ‘Maudite’ which was pretty good, but still had that offtaste. Then I tried ‘La Fin du Monde’ YAY! It’s a golden Trippel and I couldn’t believe how good it was. And no funky dead mouse. I like it so well, that I’m saving a bottle for Thanksgiving(it’s pricey) and have also started culturing the yeast. My plan is to figure it out and make it my NewYear’s brew (La Fin du Annee? My French is real weak).

Hi Ken, I have a cross reference sheet that tells me Wy 3522 is the exact strain as WLP 550. Can anyone else confirm that?

[quote=“James Rausch”]Hi Ken,
I share you thought that I’ve never met a Belgian that I enjoyed. To me, there was an off-flavor that I could only describe as ‘dead mouse’.
BUT… I recently tried two beers from a brewery in Quebec called Unibroue. I tried a Dubbel Red called ‘Maudite’ which was pretty good, but still had that offtaste. Then I tried ‘La Fin du Monde’ YAY! It’s a golden Trippel and I couldn’t believe how good it was. And no funky dead mouse. I like it so well, that I’m saving a bottle for Thanksgiving(it’s pricey) and have also started culturing the yeast. My plan is to figure it out and make it my NewYear’s brew (La Fin du Annee? My French is real weak).[/quote]

James, I read a review somewhere where it was mentioned that NB’s “La Petite Orange” reminded the writer of La Fin du Monde. That grain bill might be at least a place to start. I’m just a newbie, so if this is a bad idea, forgive me.

I do, however, have some expertise in French, and yours is very close. La Fin de l’Annee would be a great name for a New Year’s brew. Best of luck. La Fin Du Monde IS a great beer.

Ron

[quote=“PupThePup”]Rochefort 10 and Westvleteren 12 are amongst the best Belgian Quads in the world.

If you can find one, try it. Rochefort 10 can be had for 6 - 7 dollars per 11 oz. bottle. Westy 12’s are generally not available in the US (though they did a limited release a while back to raise money for the monestary).

You should get alcohol warmth, but never an alcohol bite. Bite = bad beer.

Pick up a copy of Stan Hieronymus ‘Brew Like a Monk’.

Check out the yeast flavor profiles for Wyeast on page 178 (and while you’re at it give it a read, it’s a very interesting book). (Sorry couldn’t find the chart on the internet.)

http://www.amazon.com/Brew-Like-Monk-Tr ... ike+a+monk

Also check out the Candi Syrup Recipes, most of which are Belgians.

http://www.candisyrup.com/recipes.html[/quote]

You can order westy from a lot of places
Or you can buy the readily available St. Bernard

[quote=“Frenchie”][quote=“James Rausch”]Hi Ken,
I share you thought that I’ve never met a Belgian that I enjoyed. To me, there was an off-flavor that I could only describe as ‘dead mouse’.
BUT… I recently tried two beers from a brewery in Quebec called Unibroue. I tried a Dubbel Red called ‘Maudite’ which was pretty good, but still had that offtaste. Then I tried ‘La Fin du Monde’ YAY! It’s a golden Trippel and I couldn’t believe how good it was. And no funky dead mouse. I like it so well, that I’m saving a bottle for Thanksgiving(it’s pricey) and have also started culturing the yeast. My plan is to figure it out and make it my NewYear’s brew (La Fin du Annee? My French is real weak).[/quote]

James, I read a review somewhere where it was mentioned that NB’s “La Petite Orange” reminded the writer of La Fin du Monde. That grain bill might be at least a place to start. I’m just a newbie, so if this is a bad idea, forgive me.

I do, however, have some expertise in French, and yours is very close. La Fin de l’Annee would be a great name for a New Year’s brew. Best of luck. La Fin Du Monde IS a great beer.

Ron[/quote]
Thanks for BOTH tips Frenchie Ron!

Just a few comments and answers:
WLP 550 and WY3522 are the same strain. WLP 530 and WY 3787 are the same strain. Both of these strains produce that spicey character with some fruit. If you want to minimize the spice, ferment cool for a couple of days, and then let the temp rise into the low to mid 70s to finish. You will get more fruit character, and the beer should not turn out hot. Patersbeer works great with these two yeasts. I use 550 if I am going to drink the beer quickly and 530 if I am going to age the beer for a while. Next time you brew a pilsener, pitch a couple of gallons with one of these yeasts. You could add a little bit of white sugar too. That is how I got started brewing Blond ales.

WPL 515 is totally different. It does not have those typical Belgian spicy characteristics. You could pitch in into a couple of gallons of English Pale ale if you did not want to commit to a whole batch. The recipe I suggested earlier works great though.

[quote=“SA Brew”]WPL 515 is totally different. It does not have those typical Belgian spicy characteristics. You could pitch in into a couple of gallons of English Pale ale if you did not want to commit to a whole batch. The recipe I suggested earlier works great though.[/quote]Completely agree. An english pale and belgian pale could easily have the same grain and hop bill. I’m going to have to try that idea sometime.

OK Ken, Time for my 2 cents of :blah:

I found great results in brewing a wit beer with Belgian Wheat 3942. I found that this yeast thru off a bunch of tooty-fruity and bubble gum like esters when fermenting but after just letting it rest in the low 60’s for a couple weeks in a secondary fermenter left me with a subtle ester profile similar to Affligem Blond. I think it is a mild, more clean yeast profile for lighter beers.

I think there is one common thread between a lot of the brewers in Brew Like A Monk that I think was missed in this posting. Aging in a secondary fermenter. For a couple weeks or more. Stan Hieronymus even remarks about a sign above the aging room to be quiet because the beer is aging. I found after a few experiments in aging and even lagering these ales that you can control the out come. Well, kinda.
Getting the beer off the yeast as soon as 2 days after primary fermentation is done and then slowly lowering the temp until you get it down to 32*F is important to cleaning up some of the left over, strong esters and allowing the phenolics to come forward and give complexity to the malt. I must say that I made one tasty Hefeweizen with WY1214 after doing a gradual step down over 3 weeks.I carbonated it to about 3.5 volumes over the period of a week. I did the exact same recipe but used Ardennes 3522 and made an extremely good beer. Lager!

I’ve also learned that lower mash temps (around 146*F) produce dry, thin tasting beer coming out of the primary. This seems to be better suited for the higher carbonation levels in Belgian styles. Something about the carbonic acid and the yeast profile build body back into the finished beer. I know it sounds crazy, but it does. This is also easy on the palate and leaves few lingering flavors. You taste it, it goes away. Like Coors light. :wink:

I may have posted this recipe around here somewhere before, but here it is.

Get a pack of Ardennes 3522 and put it in a 1 L starter of 1.041 made from Pilsen ME. A couple days should do it. I like it to be active when I pitch in.

for 5.5 gal at the end of the boil

5.5 lb Pisner malt
3.5 lb Wheat malt
1 lb Vienna Malt

Mash at 1.5 qt/lb at 147*F for 77 min.
Sparge enough to collect 7 gal. (Watch that pH!)

boil 100 min.

Perle Hops for 17 IBU’s at 75 min.
Spalter Hops for 3 IB’s at 20 min.
Spalter Hops-16 grams at 0 min.

Chill down to 62F and pitch in.
Let rise over 4 days to 66-68
F
Should finish out in 5 days. Let rest for 2 days at 64F
Rack to secondary
cool temp to 50
F for 5 days
lower temp to 42F for 2 days
lower temp to 36
F for 7 days
Lower temp to 32*F for 7 days
Keg and carbonate to desired level over 7 days to 3.5+ volumes/co2

Just a note on my water profile… My total hardness is 16 or less. My actual IBU’s may be less.

Update, I tried a BDS that I brewed with the WLP540 Rochefort yeast and it was more “Belgiany” than the uncarbonated beer tasted when bottling. So I retract my statement about this yeast being pretty mild in terms of the bubblegum.

Also, I did a tasting of my homebrews last night with a new friend and there was this BDS and a saison (Belgian yeast not French) in the mix, and I have a hangover this morning. I think these fruity esters tend to make for a worse hangover, ounce for ounce. Granted we did sample about 48oz each and I do know volume and ABV is a contributor.

Now if you guys would please type softly until this aspirin kicks on.

There is no doubt that beers fermented warmer allow the yeast to create larger amounts of higher alcohols as well as phenolics, and higher alcohols are much more likely to create hangovers. I have a friend who loves the taste of Belgian beers, but goes on and on about German lagers. As he says, the Germans have focused for hundreds of years learning how to brew clean beers, and no matter how many you drink the night before you wake up fine the next morning.

Ha yeah right, wake up fine the next morning…far from reality

[quote=“James Rausch”]Hi Ken,
My plan is to figure it out and make it my NewYear’s brew (La Fin du Annee? My French is real weak).[/quote]
Mine too but that would be “end of year” right? How about Bonne annee (had to Google that)

Unibroue beers are great IMHO and I buy them often. La Fin du Monde is my favorite.

For a Belgian beer for people that don’t like Belgian beers how about Lindemanns Framboise? Sweet and tart at the same time but not all that much like beer really. There are some other more sour Framboise out there like Boone but they might be getting a little like the flavor you don’t like Ken.

Not to belabor the point but it is quite possible Ken just doesn’t like the flavors that come from Belgian yeast, I know I don’t and I’ll pitch hefeweizen yeast into that same category. Not to say I haven’t had an occasional Belgian beer that I don’t mind but even the best examples (eg - Rochefort 8 and 10, Duvel and others) aren’t beers I’m going to seek out over 20-30 other beer styles I really enjoy. Like Ken I keep trying them because I do enjoy a wide variety of beers and want to keep an open mind but the only ones I tend to be okay with are the ones that keep the Belgian yeast flavors in check to the point of barely being able to tell it is Belgian. Pour Decisions Patersbier being one that I don’t mind but even then I like every other beer on Kristen’s board much better (love his Berliner Weiss).

Not everyone has to like every beer style. :cheers:

I make a giant exception for sours, love me some sour beers.

Mentioned this in another post but one of the best Belgian style beers to come out of Quebec in a while is the Blanche done by Le Cheval Blanc in Montreal.

About 5 or 6 years ago they went to a larger producer to distribute this beer en mass. Not sure if it affected the overall quality. With the larger producer ventures like this can be hit and miss.

If you ever see a case I would absolutely give it a try.

[quote=“HD4Mark”][quote=“James Rausch”]Hi Ken,
My plan is to figure it out and make it my NewYear’s brew (La Fin du Annee? My French is real weak).[/quote]
Mine too but that would be “end of year” right? How about Bonne annee (had to Google that)

Unibroue beers are great IMHO and I buy them often. La Fin du Monde is my favorite.

For a Belgian beer for people that don’t like Belgian beers how about Lindemanns Framboise? Sweet and tart at the same time but not all that much like beer really. There are some other more sour Framboise out there like Boone but they might be getting a little like the flavor you don’t like Ken.[/quote]

sours and belgain yeast strains (no bacteria) are completley different

[quote=“James Rausch”]Hi Ken,
My plan is to figure it out and make it my NewYear’s brew (La Fin du Annee? My French is real weak).[/quote]

La Fin de l’Annee - with an accute accent on the first e in Annee (I don’t know how to get an accent 'round here)