I’d say De Koninck is the most neutral Belgian pale I’ve had. White Labs releases their yeast in November, IIRC, Antwerp Ale 515.
But it sounds like you’ve tried plenty and it’s not your pint of beer. I don’t see the problem with that. I personally don’t like Belgian Quads or big banana or bubblegum flavored hefes, so I don’t drink or brew them.
doesnt have to sit for years to be bad…He may not like Belgains but that is a huge spectrum of beers. I am sure he will find one he likes if he keeps looking.[/quote]
That’s a good way to put it… huge spectrum of beers. I feel that casting off that whole area of beers could be a problem considering the size of that beer neighborhood. Also, I have had some very fresh Belgian beer and also some very good (I can say that it was very good because it was well-made but still not my thing) homebrewed Belgian beer and still not my thing… so it’s not just a “bad bottle” thing. For the record, I also have an issue with Hefes. That banana and clove is not working for me. I can taste some of the local’s homebrewed versions and I know that they have done their homework and made some excellent hefeweizen but it’s still not my beer. 
Yeah, I don’t like the tremens either, but the nocturnum is great.
Which reminds me of another great Belgian beer that you may like, Houblon Chouffe, it’s a Belgian IPA.
How about a Blue Moon? That’s a legitimate Belgian, right? 
I imagine Belgium to smell like mouldy cheese and sour yeasty beer farts.
When someone asks me how do they tell if their beer has been infected, I always start by asking if it smells like a Belgian’s ass.
No offence intended. I can actually appreciate a lot of what they do. Just not something I would drink that often when there are beers like Kostritzer coming from one country to the right.
[quote=“Brew Meister Smith”]I imagine Belgium to smell like mouldy cheese and sour yeasty beer farts.
When someone asks me how do they tell if their beer has been infected, I always start by asking if it smells like a Belgian’s ass.
No offence intended. I can actually appreciate a lot of what they do. Just not something I would drink that often when there are beers like Kostritzer coming from one country to the right.[/quote]
Funny that you say this but I have actually posted about beers I thought were questionable (infection-wise) and when people ask what the flavor or smell is like, I say, “I hate to put it this way but it sort of smells and tastes like a Belgian”… big laughs all around but I can’t think of another way to say it. Belgian beers taste infected to me. Maybe I should just stay on this side in the safe, clean-tasting beer area and make FUN of Belgians. 
A conversation like this has actually happened at homebrewer’s gatherings I have been to with guys that like to make Belgians:
Them: Here Ken, try this one. What does that taste like?
Me: Ass
Them: Okay, what about this one? What does THIS taste like?
Me: That tastes like B.O.
Them: This one?
Me (wincing): Vomit.
Them: Here, last one. Try this.
Me (gagging): Okay, seriously this one actually smells and tastes like vomit. WTF!
I’m going to +1 the 3711 too.
I made the stock NB Petite Saison a few months back. Fermented at room temp around 72.
One of my favorite beers to date.
The ones I have left have mellowed out nicely. It’s a light, refreshing brew with lots of flavor and a little spice to it.
My typical choice with any meal…especially spicy food!
I’m going to go against the majority here and say I don’t think the 3711 is yeast you want to try. I’m a big fan of Belgians but this yeast doesn’t do it for me.
I would go with your early thought of the WLP550 or WY3522. Fermented at the very low end of the temp range if gives subtle belgian style flavors and you can ramp it up as fermentation slows to get good attenuation.
No need for double digit abv, something in the 1.050’s to 1.060 will give you enough alcohol with no heat. Stick with Nobel hops.
+10000 to Rochefort 10. Simple test: buy Rochefort 10. Drink. Don’t like it? You don’t like Belgian beers and never will. It doesn’t get any better, so you can stop trying.
[quote=“Ken Lenard”]
Funny that you say this but I have actually posted about beers I thought were questionable (infection-wise) and when people ask what the flavor or smell is like, I say, “I hate to put it this way but it sort of smells and tastes like a Belgian”… big laughs all around but I can’t think of another way to say it. Belgian beers taste infected to me. Maybe I should just stay on this side in the safe, clean-tasting beer area and make FUN of Belgians.
A conversation like this has actually happened at homebrewer’s gatherings I have been to with guys that like to make Belgians:
Them: Here Ken, try this one. What does that taste like?
Me: Ass
Them: Okay, what about this one? What does THIS taste like?
Me: That tastes like B.O.
Them: This one?
Me (wincing): Vomit.
Them: Here, last one. Try this.
Me (gagging): Okay, seriously this one actually smells and tastes like vomit. WTF![/quote]
This thread actually got me in the mood to try a Quebecois Belgian style strong ale what’s been sitting in my fridge. It’s called Shawinigan Handshake. You have to be Canadian to get the reference. One of our former Prime Ministers (Jean Chretien) crushed a protester’s jaw once with his bare hand in front of like a thousand people - and totally on camera - and no one batted an eye or even cared.
Anyway, I’m enjoying it more than I thought I would. A little estery, but nice. Not overboard with the alcohol (6.5%). Nice hops presence. And just a slight soupcon of balls at the finish.
Another Belgian yeast that seems to have a relatively mild flavor profile is the white labs platinum series 510 (bastogne belgian ale). I tried this one for the first time this summer and made a wit/golden ale hybrid that turned out really well, and was a very nice summer beer. It was a pretty simple recipe (8lbs german pils, 2lbs red wheat, 8oz belgian aromatic for a OG of 1.057, 0.5oz magnum for 60 min, then 1oz strisslespalt at 20 min and again at 5 min, with 0.25oz each bitter and sweet orange peel at 5 min. Pitched at 67 and let it rise to 71 over 24-36 hours. It was a really nice, citrus flavored beer that was still identifiably “Belgian” but did not have a really strong estery or fusel character. I think this yeast is only available in the winter, but worth considering. (edit)-it had 1lb of simplicity candi syrup as well.
Two belgian recipies that are subdued on the yeast flavors (to my taste anyway) are:
(1) NB’s Biere de Garde – It uses Wyeast 2112 http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/bier … n-kit.html.
(2) Begian Strong Golden Ale. NB recipie uses Wyeast 1388. I am not sure if would be too much alchohol “burn” for you, though.
Belgian beers are definitely an acquired taste. I took tastes of them for years at club meetings before I began to like them. Now, about 1 in 3 brews is a Belgian style. A lot of what has already been said is true. Some of the most available Belgians taste the worst to me. I am not a fan of Leffe and even some fantastic beers are in green Champagne bottles and skunky.
Try Rochefort 8 and 10. They are like a nice, English barley wine with a bit of spice and enough hops not to be sweet. They are fruity (plums, dark fruit). Scaldis is another beer that is more like a Barley Wine than a spicy Belgian. I love Westmalle Tripel. It is citrusy, spicy, hoppy with a dry finish. It is probably the first Belgian beer that made me want to brew a beer like that. It does not get that meaty, hot dog water spiciness that Leffe often has. De Koninck is another favorite, but not when purchased in the states. When fresh, it is like the malt of an English pale ale with the hops and crisp finish of a Munich helles. Try a pils and Vienna malt mix with 5% Biscuit and 5% CaraVienne, all Saaz to 25 IBU and small flavor and aroma additions. Ferment with Antwerp yeast WLP 515 (when it becomes available) at 63-68. The only spice this yeast produces is a hint of cinnamon.
If you never devolop a taste for Belgians, that is okay. Your friends will enjoy drinking your portion.
[quote=“ALSS”]Two belgian recipies that are subdued on the yeast flavors (to my taste anyway) are:
(1) NB’s Biere de Garde – It uses Wyeast 2112 http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/bier … n-kit.html.
(2) Begian Strong Golden Ale. NB recipie uses Wyeast 1388. I am not sure if would be too much alchohol “burn” for you, though.[/quote]
Not to be picky but Biere de Garde is a French style beer. Fermented with a pseudo lager yeast you will definately not get any Belgian character.
BGSA is a good suggestion. Ken, have you had Duvel? It is on the amped up side of ABV at 8.5% but the esters don’t punch you in the face like some other styles.
Saying you don’t like Belgians is like saying you don’t like American beers or German beers. You are talking a huge spectrum of beers. I don’t like a lot of “belgain” beers and there are a lot I love.
Belpaire writes: [quote]Not to be picky but Biere de Garde is a French style beer.[/quote]
Not picky at all. Thanks. And, my appologies to any Belgians or French I may have offended.
Guys: Thanks a ton for all of the suggestions. You have given me enough yeast strain recommendations to already be confused but you have given me enough commercial examples to head over to my local Binny’s and grab a few. I will try some of these and see what I like and what I don’t. Grainbelt… your comment is why I started this conversation: There are so many beers and beer styles in that Beer Disneyland over there that surely I must like some of them. Right? When another brewer on NB said he didn’t like lagers, I told him that’s like saying you don’t like sandwiches. :lol: Clearly there is a Belgian sandwich… er… beer out there that I like. Cheers.
Ps. I hear that about the yeast that is not Belgian: Making a pseudo-Belgian with 2112, T58 or other neutral yeast is not what I’m talking about. I have a recipe called Dubbelfest I’m going to make shortly and it used a neutral ale yeast. Sounds like a Belgian [Dubbel] but it’s not going to taste like a Belgian. Cheers.
You might want to pick up a sixer of New Belgium trippel or dubbel. I think they’re both solid esp for the price. Rochefort and DT are among my favorites, but you can’t drink them every day.
Ken, I think your tastes are similar to mine. Not a big fan of much yeast character in a beer at all.
I’m really surprised nobody has mentioned Patersbier yet. What a wonderful beer, one that would fit right in with the styles you’re already brewing. It uses WY3787, Trappist High Gravity yeast.
I brewed Patersbier last summer, and then used some of the yeast cake to ferment NB’s Velvet Rooster clone. My batch came in around 7.2% abv, and took a bit of time to mellow out. Now, it’s incredibly smooth and light tasting, with just a touch of alcohol warmth.
Again, I really dislike the Belgian beers I’ve tried, but both of these have been winners. Patersbier and Velvet Rooster, both with WY3787. Go for it. :cheers:
[quote=“El Capitan”]Ken, I think your tastes are similar to mine. Not a big fan of much yeast character in a beer at all.
I’m really surprised nobody has mentioned Patersbier yet. What a wonderful beer, one that would fit right in with the styles you’re already brewing. It uses WY3787, Trappist High Gravity yeast.
I brewed Patersbier last summer, and then used some of the yeast cake to ferment NB’s Velvet Rooster clone. My batch came in around 7.2% abv, and took a bit of time to mellow out. Now, it’s incredibly smooth and light tasting, with just a touch of alcohol warmth.
Again, I really dislike the Belgian beers I’ve tried, but both of these have been winners. Patersbier and Velvet Rooster, both with WY3787. Go for it. :cheers: [/quote]
I’m adding that one to my list. I went and looked at the characteristics of the yeast strains mentioned in this thread. I know that won’t truly give me a feel for what they’re like but some I circled and others I crossed off just on description alone. So far, 3522 ans 515 have made the cut. The others I winced at. I will check out 3787 and see what it says. Thanks El Capitan!
