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American Farmhouse Saison

Looking for comments - no need to be gentle as I’m definitely not too up to speed on these…

Would like to keep this as a session beer so you will notice the alcohol is on the low side for modern day saisons.

For 6.25 gallons @ 70% EE
OG: 1.041
Estimated IBU: 18 (BU:GU = 0.44)
Estimated SRM: 6
Estimated ABV: 4.7% (could go a little higher as I hear the yeast chews through everything)

Mash for 80 minutes @ 146

Grain Bill:

7 pounds Valley Malt 2-row Pale
1.5 pounds Valley Malt rye (or same amount red wheat)
8 ounces Victory Malt
4 ounces acidulated malt (trying to get a little sour twang)
1 pound honey (added at flameout)

Hops:

0.25oz Citra @ FWH
0.25oz Citra @ 60
1oz Cascade @ 1

(Looking for a bit of citrus flavor and a flowery nose)

Yeast:

French Saison Wyeast 3711 pitched at 65F and rise to 75F (need to research this some more)

I bet with a # of honey and a low mash your Abv % will come in 10 more than your OG, 90%+ apparent attenuation.

I have my heart set on a session saison with Sorachi if my orval culture works.

I calculated ABV assuming 85% AA, but if it’s 90% the calculator says 4.9% ABV which I’m fine with.

Citra, for my taste, doesn’t do well as a bittering hop but is great late or dry. If you have other choices, I would go with something continental for the bittering hop and use the Citra at the end.

All my hops are American, but of those I have on hand Perle and Mount Hood. So could I use one of those to bitter and keep Citra for the FWH and Cascade to finish? (I don’t see any description of Citra having a flowery nose, which is what I’m looking to get out of the late Cascade.)

Seems to me that with Cascade at flame out the grapefruit is going to be pretty dominant.
Why not bitter with Mt Hood and hit it hard with Citra at the end?
Long Citra dry hop, try to get it grassy, maybe score some EKG to plant flowers in the dry hop?

[quote=“Scott Miller”]Seems to me that with Cascade at flame out the grapefruit is going to be pretty dominant.
Why not bitter with Mt Hood and hit it hard with Citra at the end?
Long Citra dry hop, try to get it grassy, maybe score some EKG to plant flowers in the dry hop?[/quote]

Regarding the grapefruit from flameout - thanks for the info. I’ve been assuming that flameout and dry hopping Cascade would only give the flowery aroma and not provide much citrus flavor. I thought the citrus flavor was coming from the 25 to 5 minutes additions.

Wow I’m so glad you pointed this out. I googled info about bittering with Citra and it’s definitely not recommended.

Edit: ha ha I can find just as many people saying it’s great for bittering as I can saying it’s awful. Seems to be something people either love or hate.

Just like Chinook. I did say it was to my taste, not a universal truth… :wink:

Just remembered I have an ounce of German Spalt in the freezer and also a bunch of Willamette and Crystal along with the others I noted (Perle, Mount Hood)

What I’m trying to get from the hops is just enough bitterness to balance the malt, a touch of citrus and maybe spicy flavor, and a floral spicy nose. I want the hop profile just complimenting the yeast and malt. How would you go about trying to achieve that? I definitely don’t want a really citrusy profile.

I like your thoughts here and have been messing with this a bit;
the idea of an American farmhouse with 3711,
but that Japanese hop has bewitched me. :lol:

Loved it with Sorachi Ace combined with Crystal.
Also tied Sorachi/Amarillo, with lots of Crystal late.

So, I would definitely recommend the Crystal late for your floral nose.

Maybe FWH MtHood/Crystal
60 Mt Hood
2 Crystal/Citra?

  1. Have fun.

That sound pretty good. Thanks.

Any comments on the following:

  1. Rye or red wheat?
  2. The acidulated malt (will 4oz give a sour twang, dumb idea, etc…)?
  3. The Victory malt?
  1. Some wheat or oats is always nice in saison imo. But I never tried Rye, might be interesting to.

  2. I would skip this, the french saison yeast fermets really dry and I get some sour notes from it to, not sour as in sour beer but a small acid taste maybe from the dryness?

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