I saw a clone recipe for Three Philosophers and it said that Ommegang used bottle of Liefmans Kriek at bottling time to give it that dark cherry flavor. Has anyone tried this with a 5 gallon batch of any kind. I saw the velevt rooster clone coming up at the end of the month and thought it would be good with a touch of sour cherry added. How much do you think you would use? 750ml? Also would you still use the same amount of corn sugar for bottling?
Wouldn’t the lambic yeast eat the sugars the normal beer yeast didn’t. Thus making it highly likely to have bottle bombs?
I would think it would be a better idea to add the lambic beer to the fermenter. Allow it to ferment out another 2 weeks. Then bottle.
Unless the lambic bottle has been pasteurized and you are only getting the “funk” flavors from the bottle.
I hesitate to say this, but why would one brewery use another brewery’s beer for bottling dilution? I bet you have faulty info on that.
I’m big fan of Three Philosophers and have an empty bottle in my collection. It says right on the label that it is 98% Ale-2% Ale brewed with cherries added. I did the math once and I think that works out to about a 12oz. bottle of of Kriek blended with a 5 gallon batch of Quadruple. I would think the best way would be to brew the Quad then add the Kriek to secondary and let it sit for a while. Glad to hear there is a recipe clone out there, hope it turns out well.
If you were a brewery, and one that makes a fine beer, don’t you think you could make your own kriek for dilution rather than buying someone elses? Plus you have another brewery’s beer that could either contaminate or destroy the beer you bottled it with.
From the Omemegang website:
Malts: Pils, amber, caramel, Munich
Hops: Spalt Select and Styrian Golding
Blended with: 2% Liefmans Kriek
Yeast: Ommegang house yeast
OG: 21.5* Plato
FG: 3.9* Plato
You are correct. Marketing is now brewing beer at Ommegang!
I will take the risk of using a professionals brewery’s kriek to finish off my home brew instead of trying to make my own. I didn’t notice the 2% thing. It comes out to a 375ml bottle per 5 gallons. So like 12.6 ounces. This seems like an easy and effective addition (think you guys are right about doing it in the secondary) to add something a bit extra to a recipe.
[quote=“mhill2079”]It comes out to a 375ml bottle per 5 gallons.[/quote]At that dilution, there’s not going to be any noticeable flavor contribution from the lambic itself. And two weeks sitting in secondary is not long enough for the bugs to ferment the more complex sugars, so you’d still be risking bottle-bombs. I would drink the lambic and pitch the dregs, then let it sit for several months at least, then sample and see if the bugs are getting anywhere.
Blending beers, even from different breweries, has a rich tradition in Belgium.
So the cherries I taste in three philosophers isn’t coming from the Kriek? I could use more if need be but don’t want to over do it. This one will probably get kegged anyways. Like I said, planning on trying this with the velvet rooster clone.
Far easier since you are kegging, pull some equal volume samples from the Velvet Rooster and add various amounts of Kriek to find the blend you want. Then just scale it up and add to the keg. :cheers:
I am 95% sure the kriek they add is a pasteurized one. the character it adds is cherry/tartness/sweetness, not any sort of wild yeast or bugs. 3P is an an entirely clean tasting beer, even aged for a few years.
[quote=“mhill2079”]So the cherries I taste in three philosophers isn’t coming from the Kriek? I could use more if need be but don’t want to over do it.[/quote]I haven’t tried that particular beer, so I was only commenting on the dilution seeming to be too high to be able to get a detectable character, but if the website description is truthful then 2% kriek is enough. As another poster mentioned, you could try small-scale dilutions and find the right amount, then scale up to a keg.
[quote=“Wahoo”]I am 95% sure the kriek they add is a pasteurized one. the character it adds is cherry/tartness/sweetness, not any sort of wild yeast or bugs.[/quote]I’m also not familiar with that particular kriek so didn’t know it was pasteurized (probably why I’m not familiar with it, can’t stand sweetened lambics).
From what I can find it looks like Leifmans Kriek is unpasturized. I am assuming even if I wanted to bottle a gallon of it or so that 2% addition would not be enough to have enough yeast reaction to create bottle bombs. I hope.
Keep the Leifmans in the fridge for a few days and pour slowly to minimize the amount of yeast that gets transfered. As long as you are certain that primary fermentation is complete there shouldn’t be too much risk. That’s why I would add to secondary to give it time to fully blend as well as make sure the yeast settles out.
There is conflicting info out there about what is added to 3P. Some info indicates it’s Lindemans’, not Liefman’s, that’s added to 3P and that is in fact a pasteurized sweetened lambic. Even if it is Liefman’s (I think it probably is) and Liefman’s isn’t pastuerized or sterile filtered (I have my doubts), Three Philosphers has no wild character to it, so Ommegang either pasteurizes or filters the kriek themselves. Taste the beer. It is a rich quad with a subtle hint of cherry… no sourness, no brett…
By chancee I happen to be sipping on one right now (3P). Had to revisit it to see again the amount of cherries I thought I could taste. Either way. If I go with a pasturized or not if I put it in a secondary for two weeks before bottling (also putting the kreik in the fridge before hand to minimize yeast transfer) I should be ok bottling a bit of it right?