What’s your hops schedule like for this pale ale? I would suggest you make some very low ibu, noble hop, brews and see if your taste/ flaw perceptions change. I have been playing with the same hops all summer and fall and I am now reducing carbonation every time I brew. I am not sure that the hop flavor/ aroma heavy style I want (i.e. Late additions) goes very well with carbonation.
I about 99.9% sure that you got hop harshness from having to soft of water just let it cold condition for a little while
It wasn’t like hop bitterness but like a sharp finish and lacked the flavor it once had. I dumped what was left. I was
Yes thats what im saying instead of the smooth bitterness and flavor your soft water making it harsh and sharp taste.
I don’t see where there was to be an acid addition… The Sulfite to Chloride ratio was determined to be 2: zero… So that means it will hold alot of bittering from the hops… OR, accentuate the hops…
I listened to a brulosophy about bittering hops… It was quite interesting… Two high alpha hops, side by side… But, one had a very high amount Cohumulome compared to the other… And that was what the tasters said too… it was perceived very bitter… The bitter one was chinook… I don’t remember the other one…
Trying to help find the harshness… food for thought. Sneezles61
I never bittered with ctz but after a quick internet search I saw some said it was harsh
Using both calculators they showed mash pH of 5.6, it lowered to 5.4 with salt additions and 2 mL lactic. Last batch I used just the bottled water and thought that mash pH was the issue. So I tested it and adjusted it this attempt at the same recipe. I adjusted ratio to be 2.0:1, 193 ppm Sulfate, 94 Chloride to push hops forward.
I changed hop additions from .5 oz to .6 oz. Changed whirlpool hop to flame out addition. I skipped dry hopping so I wouldn’t mask any thing off.
What get me is it tasted great before kegging well even after it carbed a little i was happy. Then it got sharp on me again and flavor disappeared. Last attempt I noticed the sharpness but overall flavor was there before it went into the keg.
That’s the thing I find it hard to believe the sharpness is from the hops. Hop flavor was great. It was bitter but not over the top. I can’t explain the flavor well but its almost like sucking on an aspirin (that may be stronger than it actually is) it shows up on the finish and stays in your mouth. The flavor just disappeared and it was just bland which didn’t help sharpness at the end. If I say papery that would make me think oxidation but I’m not seeing how.
Think back to the last good beer you made and think about what you changed. You said you made this beer before and it was good right?
The recipe is from a Zymurgy article “The IBU is a Lie” by Drew Beechum and @denny Conn. A basic pale ale recipe.
To be honest I don’t think I’ve been happy with any of the beers I’ve brewed. That’s why I’m ready to give it up. Started extract for a few years. To me I thought it always tasted off but maybe this was just “extract twang”. Brewed an all grain BPA with a buddy with fly sparge setup and it didn’t turn out well. I tried a SNPA clone fly sparge setup by myself and it turned out the same as BPA very very grainy and husky tasting figured mash pH issue. So I decided to go to BIAB. Brewed a couple batches I think I stopped taking notes at that point. Then I took a break because we had twins. Then started again.
As for this recipe I brewed it once then wanted to try it again. Thought sharpness was from too high of a mash pH with all the light colored grains. So I tested the water, adjusted water with salts and lactic (without trying to overdo it with salts or acid) and tried it again. I thought this batch was perfect then something happened. Maybe I just enjoyed yeasty green beer.
How many pints have you poured? It’s possible that your pouring hop particles that have settled out during the crash. This will result in an unbelievably harsh taste.
You said in theory your water was corrected to 5.4pH. IN THEORY. You don’t have a meter so there is no real way to tell. TBO, I ditched my meter after using Bru’n Water and seeing that it was always +/- .01 from what the program said. I’ve never used BS water corrector so I won’t vouch for it.
IIRC you’re on well water. If I were you I would look into an RO system that you maintain so you know essentially your water is 0 in all minerals. Learn Bru’n Water and go from there. Buying 9gal of water per brew will quickly pay for that RO.
try bottle a batch as an experiment
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Ok we’re still at it. Slept on it and a couple more questions. You say it tasted good flat as a sample. And tastes good for a few hours then over night it’s not so good. That to me sounds like something post brewing. Usually with me it’s the opposite I’ll taste the product and not be happy in which case I’ll pull it off line and let it “lager” which often helps. Are you using any finings. How long do you condition your beer. What is your serving temperature. Is your regulator working. Borrow a ph meter and check the pH. Also I agree knock out a 1 gallon batch BIAB and bottle with that Flars method and see what you think. By the way how long have you been kegging? We’re going to figure this out.
@loopie_beer I pulled quite a few pints and did not disturb keg. That’s kind of my reason for not having a meter. I’ll input my data into bru’n water and see what it says. No I’m on city water. I wanted to rule out chlorine totally and be sure it wasn’t an issue.
@brew_cat Yes beer tasted good flat. Pulled samples as it was on gas. It tasted fine but flat and even as it got some carbonation. Then it changed so I thought ok maybe carbonation needs to settle. So I let to go then it tasted great. Drank 3 pints the one night. Then next night or so it got sharp finish and muted almost like oxidation. Hop character gone.
Used gelatine first attempt and skipped it this time. I’m sure I’ll catch a lot of flack but I racked to keg after a week. I kept temp @ 66 for first 3 days then let it come up to around 70 to finish. Gravity was stable I was happy with taste. Keezer was kept @ 40. I tired warming it up before tasting after flavor changed and it didn’t change. I’m pretty sure my regulator is accurate. I haven’t been kegging for that long. Maybe 5 or 6 times.
A couple thing jump out. Basically you let it finish fermenting in the keg since it sounds like you racked it in at 7days. So what happened is there is probably alot of trub in the bottom of that keg. You could be expieriencing yeast bite. Trust me let it ferment 2 or even 3 weeks before moving to the keg. Not saying that’s your problem but patience pays. The sample may have tasted good because you pulled it off the top and it was still sweet.
You pulled off a few pints to clear the trub but since there was still yeast in suspension that is settling out. I’d say that baby is green. Lager it
Sounds like you went above and beyond the call of duty with sanitation, water temps. Has your source of CO2 been the same? I have never heard of anyone getting a bad tank. Mine have come from CO2 dealers and fire equipment shops. Never noticed any difference.
Is there something wrong with your tap water other than the possibility of chlorine or chloramines? I went through getting our water report, running it through Brunwater then had to do a very slight acid adjustment. So little I don’t bother since I could not tell the difference. One disclaimer though. I’m not that good at detecting small off flavors or describing any I can.
If you think the problem was from the carbonation process, try priming the keg. It’s a PIA when you have a perfectly good way to to carbonate without the priming process that is not always perfect.
It might sound stupid but I would try using your tap water and add a campden tablet or less depending on batch size. Just clean and sanitize the keg. I have some that have not been disassembled for years. I half fill them with One Step for a few minutes,run some out the dip tube and turn it over for a few more minutes. Sounds like you are reading too much into it. This is from a guy that REALLY doesn’t worry. I have even just rinsed out a recently emptied keg and filled it back up.
This would be a great phone conversation FOR Denny and Drew/Experimental brewing… Then a follow up after a brew… I hope Denny finds hid way back here to help out…
I still go back to pH too low… But then, this won’t explain your other brews that went awry… Are you willing to do say, 2.5 gallon brew? Lets have you make a light, blonde ale style…I will even go as far as to not have you put in a bittering charge… I want to see if perhaps you may be a super sensitive taster… Could help to explain the harshness… Perhaps, when its green, the yeast is still helping to cover up these compounds… Then as they settle out in a few pints… here comes the harsh flavor… But as it sits and “lagers”, as Brew Cat is suggesting… hops seem to fad, blend better with the malts?
Sneezles61
