[quote=“Helvetica”] I think it should be either American Black Ale or Cascadian Dark Ale since it originated in the NorthWest.
[/quote]
Wait, when did they move Vermont to the North West?
I wasn’t aware of the geographical origin debate; I watched an episode of Brewing TV on Cascadian Dark Ale.
I haven’t come across any commercial BIPA’s; to be honest, I never heard of nor tried one until I brewed a 1 gal. batch from NB.
I wasn’t aware of the geographical origin debate; I watched an episode of Brewing TV on Cascadian Dark Ale.
I haven’t come across any commercial BIPA’s; to be honest, I never heard of nor tried one until I brewed a 1 gal. batch from NB.[/quote]
The origin debate has been going on as long as the naming debate. Someone a few years back did some real research and determined that Greg Noonan brewed the first one in Vermont 2-3 years before anyone on the left coast.
My vote is for India Black Ale. I think “black IPA” just sounds stupid, “American black ale” is far too vague a descriptor, and I have yet to see an actual commercial beer with the label “Cascadian dark ale”. That having been said, I must also say that I don’t particularly care what it’s called, because I’m not a huge fan of the style in general. It’s not that I necessarily think that the style can’t be done well per se, it’s just that I have yet to see a commercial example that I think is really worth seeking out.
I think that “American Black Ale” might be in the revised BJCP guidelines. Not sure.
It’s a lot better than “India” and a hell a lot better than “Cascadian”.
Yes, the origins of the style do come from Vermont and that’s that.
I like the style and think it’s more than a passing fad. We’ll see.
The problem is that there is a lot of commercial examples that just plain suck. Too bad.
Good examples were said before, FW Wooky Jack and Stones Self Righteous among others.
Or brew your own. Urban UFO took first place in cat.23 at the NHC. It’s listed as a Black IPA.
Maybe the dark malt helps with PH/alkalinity depending on your water.
Now, about Red IPA?!
I’d say it’s an OK beer given the hurdle they had to overcome.[/quote]
What’s the hurdle Denny? :?
[quote=“wallybeer”]I think that “American Black Ale” might be in the revised BJCP guidelines. Not sure.
It’s a lot better than “India” and a hell a lot better than “Cascadian”.
Yes, the origins of the style do come from Vermont and that’s that.
I like the style and think it’s more than a passing fad. We’ll see.
The problem is that there is a lot of commercial examples that just plain suck. Too bad.
Good examples were said before, FW Wooky Jack and Stones Self Righteous among others.
Or brew your own. Urban UFO took first place in cat.23 at the NHC. It’s listed as a Black IPA.
Maybe the dark malt helps with PH/alkalinity depending on your water.
Now, about Red IPA?![/quote]
Indeed. I’ve brewed a couple in that mold myself, and I’m sure I will again someday. I think there’s just a lot more room for experimentation there. You can try all kinds of different things under that umbrella, as opposed to IBA, where you either just add some dark malt to a regular IPA recipe and try not to make it taste too burnt, or wimp out and use some sinamar just to give it a black color with no roasted flavor at all.
I wasn’t aware of the geographical origin debate; I watched an episode of Brewing TV on Cascadian Dark Ale.
[/quote]The debate is pretty ridiculous, since the style is essentially a revival of an old British style called KK and doesn’t differ much from an East India Porter, if it has roast qualities. Those are two styles made long before any of these examples.
“1901 KK
Beer Style: KK Hop Variety: Kent Goldings, Bramling Cross Malt Variety: Pale Malt ABV: 7.8% IBUs: 100 Color: Black …dry, hoppy, but with no roasted malts.”
I wasn’t aware of the geographical origin debate; I watched an episode of Brewing TV on Cascadian Dark Ale.
[/quote]The debate is pretty ridiculous, since the style is essentially a revival of an old British style called KK and doesn’t differ much from an East India Porter, if it has roast qualities. Those are two styles made long before any of these examples.
“1901 KK
Beer Style: KK Hop Variety: Kent Goldings, Bramling Cross Malt Variety: Pale Malt ABV: 7.8% IBUs: 100 Color: Black …dry, hoppy, but with no roasted malts.”[/quote]
Where does this information come from? I’ve never come across any such style in all my years of reading about beer. You’ve really hit me with a new one there.
I’d say it’s an OK beer given the hurdle they had to overcome.[/quote]
What’s the hurdle Denny? :? [/quote]
The style itself.
Rogue tried making bacon beer. How’d that go? 
I should clarify my point. I’m cool with innovation. It’s necessary. Especially where advancing science is concerned. What I’m not cool with is how extreme beer and “putting weird $hit in beer” (as I like to say it) has gotten so popular that it seems appreciation for the classic styles is now seriously out of style. I’m so tired of new beer geeks who go and on about barrel aged, imperial, civet coffee bean, moon dust infused export stout…but they wouldn’t know a great APA or bitter if one ran them down in the street.
[quote=“Denny”]
How about “Gimmick Beer that I Wouldn’t Put in my Mouth If You Paid Me”?[/quote]
Should those darn kids get off of your lawn as well?
[quote=“deliusism1”][quote=“Slothrob”]The debate is pretty ridiculous, since the style is essentially a revival of an old British style called KK and doesn’t differ much from an East India Porter, if it has roast qualities. Those are two styles made long before any of these examples.
“1901 KK
Beer Style: KK Hop Variety: Kent Goldings, Bramling Cross Malt Variety: Pale Malt ABV: 7.8% IBUs: 100 Color: Black …dry, hoppy, but with no roasted malts.”[/quote]
Where does this information come from? I’ve never come across any such style in all my years of reading about beer. You’ve really hit me with a new one there.[/quote]
There’s a lot of great info about KK and XX beers (and K and X and XB and KKK and XXX beers) on the Shut Up About Barclay Perkins[/url] site and in [url=http://www.amazon.com/Home-Brewers-Guide-Vintage-Beer-ebook/dp/B00I56GAPU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1394580356&sr=8-1&keywords=ron+pattinson]Ron Pattinson’s recipe book
.
Dann Paquette, of Pretty Things fame has a side project called Once Upon A Time that makes historic beers, which included a KK and an East India Porter. These classic styles, made back into the 19th century, were IPA- and IIPA-strong, dark, heavily hopped and heavily dry hopped beers that
Rogue tried making bacon beer. How’d that go?
I should clarify my point. I’m cool with innovation. It’s necessary. Especially where advancing science is concerned. What I’m not cool with is how extreme beer and “putting weird $hit in beer” (as I like to say it) has gotten so popular that it seems appreciation for the classic styles is now seriously out of style. I’m so tired of new beer geeks who go and on about barrel aged, imperial, civet coffee bean, moon dust infused export stout…but they wouldn’t know a great APA or bitter if one ran them down in the street.[/quote]
+1 on that. And not only do they get off on needlessly throwing bizarre stuff into their beer for no good reason other than trying to get attention, they charge a ridiculous amount of money for their “innovation”, too. Breweries like Dogfish Head and Southern Tier can f@#k right off with their $10 double-deucers. I’ve had quite enough of that kind of crap.
