Sorry… would NOT need to consider*
I don’t think that is it. Something else is going on. I have a black IPA (from NB, not Lakefront) that I think was a partial mash and it has a “tinge” of what you are describing. Well more like expecting to taste an IPA and getting an double imperial stout. You take a sip and just go, whoa! It is a bit harsh and very strong for some reason, but it is mellowing and there is no way I am dumping it. I may take it out of the keg when a replacement is ready and let it age a bit more.
With just 5 batches under my belt, I am NO expert. I have noticed however that the hoppiness flavor that [u]I like[/u] gets better after a few months of conditioning, regardless of style. The younger beers I have drank were good but had that similar “pucker factor” that a similar commercial brews dont have.
Let it age, brew another batch, try it again later.
73
JW
I read in several forums that aging needs to be done at room temp, as it is much less effective at serving temp. Some go so far as to say that it cannot mellow at 45f. What’s everyone’s take on that?
I wouldn’t have rushed off the primary. If it was an IPA, it was likely a “bigger” beer, and would have benefited from additional time on the primary… you could have gone for 4 weeks–instead of one–and been just fine (perhaps better). Just because visible activity has diminished after a few days, it doesn’t mean it is “finished”. The yeast will continue to work to clean up fermentation byproducts for quite a while.
I’m not sure there’s a root cause for your overly bitter beer, but your beers will benefit in the future from a slower pace in the primary. If you want to consider that time well spent on the “conditioning” side, so be it.
I definitely have plans to stay in primary for much longer on my next batch. What I’m trying to ask is when I’m aging, or in my case “keg conditioning”, do I need to do that at room temp or can that be done at 48f serving temp? Some people seem to think it’s innefectual a serving temp and can not mellow that way. This beer has been carbonated and at 48f since 17 days after brew day. Good ole’ fashioned impatience?
Aging cold does slow the mellowing/blending process down, but we’re talking about weeks, not months. If it’s undrinkable, there’s no harm in degassing and bringing it back up to room temp and let it mellow for a week or two. You probably should have left that dude in the primary for at least 6 weeks before kegging but I think after a couple of months, even cold, it’d mellow out.
A quick note on steeping grains; you are doing it just right, better than right, in fact, because you are holding the optimum temp for 30 minutes. I’ve started doing the same thing and have found a nice increase to fermentables, up to 4 points.
Astringency can be caused by to high of a water/grain ratio. Steeping grains in more then 1 gallon of water per 1 lb. of grain can cause the “mash” PH to become to high, greater that 5.8 and cause the extraction of tannins from the grain.
Sooo… probably safe to assume with my second batch that if I steep with less water, primary for longer and carefully sanitize things should come out better?
As a side note: My LHBS owner tried to talk me out of even purchasing a glass carboy as secondary fermentation is only recommended for racking onto fruit or wood chips. I noticed in sawyer’s post that he said primary six weeks and keg, no secondary. How do you feel about secondary fermentation and when is it necessary?
Using a secondary is really personnal preference. It is really not needed for any reason unless you plan for an extended conditioning period, ie longer than 2 months.
In reality, an additions can be made in the primary fermenter after fermentation has finished. There is no reason you can not dry hop, add oak, bourbon, vanilla, pepper, fruit etc. to the primary fermenter, you will be racking off of that stuff anyways.
That being said, I almost always use a secondary to increase my production line, this allows me to have 30 gallons in carboys, so the minute a keg is empty I can sanizie and refill imediatley. As I said though, just my preference.
+1, I would say the biggest reason that I currently secondary, is to free up primary fermentors?
So my next question then is: can I not primary in a glass carboy? Risk of overpressurizing perhaps? Can I secondary in plastic buckets?
Not sure how a primary in a glass carboy would over pressurize, if you have a proper airlock or blow off system. Tons of people use carboys instead of buckets for primary, but they need to be bigger than 5 gallon for 5 gallon batches. You need the head space.
Why would you want to do it in “reverse” order? Besides what I said earlier about using secondary fermentors to free up primary space, the other reason I keep doing it is because it allows me to see the beer in the final stages so that I can visually see when it is ready. Zero airlock activity, no foam on top (even around the rim) and noticeable clearing and it is ready to bottle or keg. I could not really do that in a bucket.
I totally botched my entire post. What I was trying to ask was: Since everyone seems to make a differentiation between primary and secondary fermenters… is there actually a difference? Should I just start collecting 6.5 gallon glass carboys as they seem like the master do-all of the trade?
You will get lots of answers to this, but since we are having a conversation, here are my thoughts:
Glass is heavy, slippery when wet and breakable.
If you primary in glass, all the crud that is created by the krausen and foam is inside a vessel with a 2" opening. People deal with this all the time and seemingly have no issues. To me, a bucket that is cheap and does the job works fine. If or when I upgrade I would look at a conical or sturdier, larger food safe container for bigger batches.
[quote=“TheMerkle”]
All the while 90% of the hop sludge that went in to the boil sat in the very hot final wort, and throughout the seven day fermentation.[/quote]
This is probably a major contributor to your problem. When I first started brewing I had a similar problem and as soon as I was able to get clear clean wort into the fermenter the astringency problem cleared up. Suggest using a hop bag and kettle finings like whirlflock.
[quote=“MRCCEO”][quote=“TheMerkle”]
All the while 90% of the hop sludge that went in to the boil sat in the very hot final wort, and throughout the seven day fermentation.[/quote]
This is probably a major contributor to your problem. When I first started brewing I had a similar problem and as soon as I was able to get clear clean wort into the fermenter the astringency problem cleared up. Suggest using a hop bag and kettle finings like whirlflock.[/quote]
As many times as I’ve been told that this is not likely the fault in my beer… I cant help but feel like it was a contributor. In the future I plan to do exactly what you suggested in using a paint filter as a hop bag.
[quote=“560sdl”]Glass is heavy, slippery when wet and breakable.
If you primary in glass, all the crud that is created by the krausen and foam is inside a vessel with a 2" opening. People deal with this all the time and seemingly have no issues. To me, a bucket that is cheap and does the job works fine. If or when I upgrade I would look at a conical or sturdier, larger food safe container for bigger batches.[/quote]
I’m sure the list of pros and cons of glass carboys would be different for every author who would write one. The durability of glass seems in and of itself to be a pro AND a con.
That being said I was just trying to make sure I understood that it is a matter of personal preference. I think for my money I’ll be leaning towards glass. At my LHBS I can get a 6.5 glass carboy with a steel attachable handle and a three piece airlock for $40… only a few dollars more than a plastic bucket.
Personnaly I prefer glass, but again, it is personnal preference.
6.5 gallon carboys are great for primary fermentations as they have enough head space for the krausen to form without overflowing or clogging the air lock etc.
5 gallon carboys are better for secondary, as the lack of head space limits the amount oxygen in contact with the beer reducing the chance of oxidation.
I mentioned earlier in the thread that I used a wine fridge to temp control my primary fermentation but not for the secondary as the carboy wouldn’t fit in the little fridge. It was probably in the high 70s or low 80s in the closet this midsummer. I took no response to mean that this was okay… but that was definitely a higher temp than suggested. Also, it’s been suggested that my beer was not finished fermenting. Could this have contributed to the bitterness?
