[quote=“floyd”]To quote Dave B: "Do not, under any circumstances, use domestic two-row – the beer is too insipid, lacking a credible maltiness, making for a rather one-dimensional IPA. "
I am likely biased because this is one of my favorite recipes. But of course, opinions (and taste buds) vary.[/quote]
With all due respect I don’t think that recipe is a very good comparison to what Pietro is saying. The only american hops in there are used as a bittering charge. What are the other hops in there!!! Yep… ENGLISH hops.
Now I do know many are fond of that recipe, but I don’t think it shows that american hops mix well with MO.
[quote=“Loopie Beer”][quote=“floyd”]To quote Dave B: "Do not, under any circumstances, use domestic two-row – the beer is too insipid, lacking a credible maltiness, making for a rather one-dimensional IPA. "
I am likely biased because this is one of my favorite recipes. But of course, opinions (and taste buds) vary.[/quote]
With all due respect I don’t think that recipe is a very good comparison to what Pietro is saying. The only american hops in there are used as a bittering charge. What are the other hops in there!!! Yep… ENGLISH hops.
Now I do know many are fond of that recipe, but I don’t think it shows that american hops mix well with MO.[/quote]
+1, the hops in the beer have very little to do with American IPA, if anything. Oh and this was also written in 1990-EFFING-five! This is back when yeast autolysis actually happened, Pete’s Wicked Ale was thought to be the most amazing beer in the craft beer world and Shaun Hill hadn’t even discovered Radiohead…
Have you ever used Chinook? Pretty much any hop that follows it for flavor or aroma will be overshadowed by the character it attributes to a beer as a bittering hop, it screams American! And what English IPA’s normally clock in around 60-65 OG? They are more typically in the 50-60 OG range with lower IBU’s.
For that matter, I fail to see how the year this article was written has any bearing on the question? The 90’s were the point in time when many were laying down the foundations of the brewing & beer scene we are experiencing currently. No one thought (or worried, thank you Charlie) anymore about yeast autolysis that they do today, the original Pete’s Wicked ale was a great example of an American Brown Ale, and Shaun is a product of the current generation, not mine, Praise Gambrinus!
Point being, don’t rule out Maris Otter or any English malt as a base for an IPA loaded with American hops, it’s a generalization to say that they don’t work together. Especially as the gravity and IBU’s increase. YMMV.
I think a good example of an IPA with a nice malty backbone is Southern Tiers 2XONE. Last year it was Cargill Special Malt and Mosaic this year it is Superior Pale Malt and Equinox.
I haven’t tried this years but 2014’s was fantastic!
Cargill special malt is a higher kilned base malt kind of like MO and I could pick up some of the same crackery notes in 2XONE. The malt wasn’t as powerful as my own experience with MO but something similar was definitely going on there.
I might even try a blend of MO and American two Row to dial back some of the malt presence to see how that works. I have heard of others doing that with good results.
I might even try a blend of MO and American two Row to dial back some of the malt presence to see how that works. I have heard of others doing that with good results.[/quote]
Our last one before this was a 50/50 blend of MO and Pearl for 90% of the grain and it was excellent. Slightly nuanced malt flavor, but nothing that got in the way. In fact the only thing I would change to rebrew is the hop cocktail (needed a bit more dank/Chinook/CTZ).
All MO (this one) is just not my bag though. The malt drowns out the hops, plain and simple.
Somewhat unrelated, but a friend of mine brought back a haul from Chicago including 3F, Pipeworks, Revolution, and Finch’s. By and large, the hop-forward beers were way too malty for me (especially Finch’s, except maybe their APA). Also recall heard something on the Jamil show about him submitting IPA’s to midwestern comps and getting feedback that his beers weren’t malty enough (the same beers that would win/place in east coast/west coast comps). Based on these two, I would say that in many cases (including GLBC), midwestern IPA’s are maltier, again bordering on amber country.
I have a recipe for and “american bitters” which uses MO and small amounts (8oz and 4oz) 20L crystal and victory, and is hopped with columbus and citra. (columbus for bittering, and a combination of the two for late additions and dry hopping). Maybe because it has a low OG, the malts play nicely with the hops, and it did well in a club competition. Several trained judges and professional brewers liked the combination. Make sure you taste your malt to be sure it is not stale. Occasionally you run into a bad sack that was not dried/stored/etc. properly.
